#2504 - Skylar Grey

[00:00] Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out! The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day! [00:11] Great to see you. Great to see you. What's happening? [00:16] Putting out an album. [00:17] This is the power of music. [00:20] I told my wife that you were coming on, and she said... [00:23] I don't want to get a model. [00:27] She said, if I die... [00:29] My funeral [00:30] I want her song. I'm coming home. Really? Yeah. I was like, that's a heavy thought. And then I listened to it in the gym. I was like, God damn. I listened to the version where you were on the piano. It was like a solo concert. [00:47] And I was like, God. [00:50] That's such a [00:52] It's such a great song, but it's such a crazy thought. Yeah. That someone would want. Wow. A very specific song. [01:01] Man. [01:03] Heavy way to start the podcast. [01:06] But that's the emotion of real music. It's like you sent me a text message about AI, because you sent me one of your songs, and you're like, AI is never... [01:20] gonna recreate this. I said something like, [01:24] I don't think it's capable of writing stuff with this much emotion yet. Well, it's not real. Yeah. It sounds cool. That's what AI does. There's cool songs that come from AI.

[01:37] But there's always going to be, and I completely agree with you, there's always going to be a thing. [01:42] We know a person wrote it, that they sat down and they wrote it, and there's this connection with their spirit and their creativity that comes out. And that's what people love about music. [01:56] Other than stuff that sounds. I like AI music because it sounds cool. But I know what it is. [02:02] I know it's just a robot. [02:04] I mean, I think it's, you know... [02:06] Sometimes it's good for certain things, but the type of music that I make personally... [02:12] It's like very therapeutic for me to write. [02:14] I always am writing from like [02:16] a true emotion, so... [02:19] um yeah each marshall's giving you true emotion right now yeah it all has its place though i think ai is an interesting it's just like another tool i feel like that um you know when autotune first came out people were bitching about that and even like my first albums i recorded with my mom [02:41] when I was a little kid, we did it on two-inch tape. So there was no computer involved. So then computers got introduced, and people were bitching about that, like, this isn't real music. It's just like all these technological advances. [02:56] To me, I see them as just tools that creatives can use to get their vision across. What was Peter Frampton using back in the day? It was like a tube or something, right?

[03:07] I have no idea. [03:08] Do you remember, like... [03:10] You know what that stuff is, Jamie, right? It's a talk box. [03:16] It's like a tube you put in your mouth or something? Yeah, so it's like a straw, and the microphone picks up the sound. So the sound would go through the tube into your mouth, and then the microphone picks that up, and you're using your mouth. Because I remember people hating that. Like, way back in the day, people were hating that. Like, that's not his real voice. Like, what is he doing? Why is he putting it through that thing? [03:36] I don't know. [03:38] But there's always, I mean, look, there's always going to be tools that people use to enhance creativity. But the thing that's weird now is that they're making entire songs. They can make a total Skylar Grey category. And they sound pretty good. They sound really good. You know, that's what's crazy. It's your voice. It's your actual voice. And it's only going to get better, you know, because it's so new. Yeah. Yeah. [04:00] So those entire podcasts with me that I never did. [04:04] Really? Yeah, there's a whole conversation with me and Steve Jobs. I never met Steve Jobs. [04:09] It's just me and Steve Jobs talking about stuff. Is it the visual too? No, it's not the visual. This one's just an audio one, but eventually I'm sure there'll be a visual one. Yeah. There's definitely ones of me talking to people I've never talked to because people pretend they've been on the show for fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They have a conversation with me. It's very, very strange. Yeah. [04:30] Very strange. [04:32] Yeah, we're living in a weird, blurry time. Yeah. Like the lines between real and not real are getting very blurry.

[04:40] Like it's an introduction to the matrix. Like we're getting like the first whispers of the fog of the matrix as it envelops us. Yeah. We're getting just these little clouds like, oh, this is weird. Then eventually it's just going to be, oh, we're going to just be in the full cloud of the matrix. But I see people questioning everything now. They're like, is this real? Everybody's sussy about everything now. You should. Yeah. I mean, there's people like prominent news people who've reposted stories with videos in it that were like straight out of a video. [05:10] Yeah. [05:12] It's a very, very weird time we're in. Very. You know? But I think it's also exciting. [05:17] Oh, it's definitely exciting. You know, it's fun. [05:20] Yeah, well, it's weird. Anytime things are weird. Anything things like that. Yeah, but that I think it makes you really appreciate actual things like real physical things. Yeah, I agree with that. Real connection with people, real art. [05:34] I think that's what's going to happen a lot with AI, like people's actual artwork, like getting something like this chimp sculpt. This is made with thimbles, symbols. [05:46] with Zildjus. Oh yeah, I see that. [05:48] This guy, Shane Against the Machine. [05:50] Yeah. [05:51] He makes really, yeah, he's an artist, makes cool stuff. But like, I know a guy made that. Yeah. You know, like when I'm. [05:57] fucking around with this. Like, this guy made it. Yeah, I think it'll make us value real... [06:02] human-made art [06:03] more. And... [06:06] value, like, nuance and [06:08] mistakes and things not being perfect

[06:11] Yeah. [06:13] I mean... [06:14] That's part of what's relatable about art. And it's part of... [06:19] What makes us appreciate that it did come from a person. [06:22] You know, like when you look at a really cool painting, like that painting, like that doesn't, that's not perfect. Yeah. It's not supposed to be perfect. Yeah. [06:29] I love that. It's just supposed to be an expression. Mm-hmm. You know, it's... [06:32] It's like a person's work. It's like they're... [06:35] Whatever they are, their thing, their essence is in that canvas, you know? [06:42] Yep. [06:43] How did you get started doing music? How old were you? You said you recorded with your mom when you were little? Yeah. How old were you? [06:49] I was six when I did my first show. [06:51] Whoa. Yeah. Yeah. [06:53] So she was in, like, folklore? [06:56] bands and stuff and she also plays Celtic Harp and my dad was in a barbershop quartet. [07:01] My great-grandma was an opera singer. So I just was, like, born into an extremely musical family, and, um... [07:08] when I was like, [07:09] 2... [07:10] uh... [07:11] We were singing happy birthday to one of my aunts and I started singing a harmony. [07:15] My mom was like, "What? [07:17] is going on. How's a two-year-old singing harmony? I wasn't even able to like say all the words but [07:22] the notes I was singing were like the harmony part. [07:25] And [07:26] Then with all her bands that she was playing with all the time, [07:29] I would be at the rehearsals and chiming in, and then they would, like, bring me up on stage to do little guest appearances and... [07:39] It was just very clear that that's what I wanted to do. Wow. And so when I was six...

[07:46] We put together our first hour-long set, and I played at a library. [07:50] Me and my mom together. Whoa. And it was a Mother's Day show in Madison, Wisconsin. Oh. So I'm from Mazomania. It's like a 1,500-person, really small village, basically, in Wisconsin. [08:04] And so then... [08:05] I just loved it. And so we started touring around the Midwest and played a lot of really random venues like... [08:15] elementary schools, [08:18] libraries, [08:19] women's health conventions [08:22] I think the, [08:23] One of the biggest shows I ever did was actually a Boy Scouts. [08:26] thing [08:28] And it was like... [08:29] 1500 Boy Scouts. How old were you? [08:33] So I did this from the time I was six till I went solo, I think, when I was 12. [08:43] That's crazy. Yeah. [08:45] This episode of the Joe Rogan Experience is brought to you by Paramount+. UFC history is going down at the White House. It's the world's greatest fights on America's biggest stage. Watch UFC Freedom 250 at the White House live today only on Paramount+. [09:05] This episode is brought to you by the Farmer's Dog. Here's a fun fact. Research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer on average than dogs who are overweight. Isn't that wild and also kind of obvious at the same time? So why is feeding vague scoops of ultra-processed kibble still the status quo for most dog owners?

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[11:22] is a registered trademark of FCAUS LLC. That's an interesting life, though, to have your path carved out, or at least the direction at a very young age. Yeah, and it wasn't like I was a Disney star or something, so it wasn't on a big scale. It was organic. It was small and... [11:41] But I made decent money and... [11:44] I mean, for a kid. And I saved it up and then when I was 12 I bought my first grand piano with the money I'd saved up. [11:52] Oh, wow. Yeah. [11:54] And so then I started writing songs at the piano. [11:57] like pop songs and stuff solo. And it wasn't cool at that time to be singing with my mom anymore. Like, you know, kids get really mean in middle school. And they would like make fun of me because we were singing the silliest like... [12:11] Like, We Are the Colors of the Rainbow, and Never Smoked Tobacco, and My Grandma Slid Down the Mountain. These are some of the song titles. So it was very silly, and I got made fun of. [12:22] And so I wanted to sing pop songs. [12:24] And I went solo and my mom was not stoked about that because like it had become her career. [12:30] singing with me. I would miss so much school. Sometimes I had six shows a week. [12:39] So it was like a lot. [12:42] Hey, lie down, buddy. But... [12:43] You're huffing and puffing. [12:48] Oh, look at that. I love you too.

[12:55] Lie down. Go lie down. Go lie down. [12:59] So when you say your mom wasn't stoked about that, was that like real friction between you guys? No. I mean, she was really supportive, but... [13:07] Like I said, it had become her career singing for me, so it was like... [13:13] She had to adjust her whole lifestyle and [13:16] everything for that. Wow. You know? That'd be a hard decision for you then, knowing that that's going to... [13:21] bomb your mom out. [13:24] Yes and no. I just, like... [13:26] I was so driven. [13:28] At 12? Oh, yeah. [13:31] Thank you. [13:31] Yeah. [13:32] Well, what was the feeling? Like when you say you're so driven, like what was it inside you that made you want to... I just loved making music and performing and writing. And I knew I just... [13:44] There was no like... [13:46] option. [13:47] of anything else I would do with my life. And I knew I wasn't going to sing with my mom my whole life. [13:53] you know? [13:53] So I had that sometime. Yeah, cut a moose. [13:58] At 12. Yeah. That's so crazy. Yeah. [14:02] God, that's so wild. And I hated school so much. And I begged to be homeschooled. [14:09] We couldn't figure that out, so I ended up dropping out when I was... [14:14] Sixteen. [14:16] Why'd you hate it so much? [14:19] Um, because I was so focused on music, I felt like I was wasting my time. [14:23] In school. Wow. Um...

[14:26] Yeah. Yeah. [14:27] There was this teacher that... [14:30] My algebra teacher. [14:32] Um... [14:33] She said something to me that kind of lit a fire under my ass in a good way. [14:39] She told me music isn't a career. [14:43] And I was like, I'll show you, bitch. [14:47] And so I dropped out and I never went back after she said that. There's so many teachers that have... [14:54] over children that say things like that. [14:56] And it's such a crazy, irresponsible thing to say. [15:01] Yeah, because I had missed or I hadn't done my homework. [15:05] Because I had a show. [15:08] the night before this, and then we had a test and, [15:11] I aced the test. [15:12] I was a good student. I had like a 3.9. [15:16] But I aced the test, but she was like, but you've got to do your homework just like everybody else in this class. And I was like, I had a show. I couldn't. I didn't have time. [15:24] And she was like, well, music's not a career. [15:26] That's such a crazy thing to say because it's clearly a career. Why do you listen to music? Who's making it? I know. When you go to a concert, people are paying. Is there someone on stage? Is that a career? Yeah. [15:37] What the fuck does that mean? It's not a career. Small town Midwest, it's like, I mean, I guess everywhere. It's everywhere. People push the go to school, get a good job. [15:47] Um... [15:48] And I just wasn't on that path ever. [15:52] It was pretty wild to be that focused at such an early age. But it is...

[15:58] It's something fun about those kind of [16:01] Like, I'll show you bitch stories. Yeah. Like, I could have taken that and been like, I could have gone the other direction with that comment, you know? Right. You could have said, oh, my God, I don't want to be a loser. Yeah. I don't want to be homeless. Yeah. Like, okay, she's right. And she's an adult, so she must know. Right. But, yeah. I did the opposite. It gave me a fire. But you get older and you realize, like, there's a lot of people that are teaching. They're just teaching because they need a teacher. [16:31] their minds and their futures. Yeah. [16:34] There's some good teachers. A lot. There's a lot of them. I had some really good teachers, but she was not one of them. It's hard to find someone that's really good at a job that doesn't pay very well. It is. That's part of the problem. That is part of the problem. It's almost like... [16:47] You would think that if the future of humanity is very important, one of the most important things would be education. [16:56] So one of the most important things would be finding the best teachers. And how would you do that? You would pay them. [17:02] really well. Yeah. [17:03] Like if we really cared about the future of Earth, we would spend a ton of money making sure that these teachers are really well educated and that they really understand psychology. They really understand how to motivate children. [17:19] You would think. Yeah. That would make a lot of sense. Right. It's so odd how intelligent and capable and innovative we are and yet so fucking foolish at the same time.

[17:31] That we just allow that generation after generation. Shitty teachers not getting paid. Good teachers not getting rewarded. And then they retire and they're like, what was that all for? Nobody cared. Nobody appreciated what I was doing. [17:48] You have to fight for your pension. Ugh. Ugh. The whole system is so messed up. But the education system is so crazy. Yeah. [17:58] I mean, essentially, I mean, when you go down the tinfoil hat road, it was essentially designed to make factory workers. [18:05] I mean, you know, there wasn't really [18:08] formal schooling like we have now where children go at an early age and show up and leave their parents all day. That's a fairly recent thing in human history. And the reason why they got people really early is because that's how you can brainwash them. Right. You get kids when they're 14, 15 years old that kind of already have their own view of the world. It's hard to shape them. But you get those little five-year-olds, six-year-olds. [18:36] And then if you get preschool, you know, because a lot of people have to work, you know, parents, both parents work. So then you can get the kids real early. And then you can make little workers out of them. Walk in a single file line and control everything. Sit in class. Sit straight ahead. [18:55] Pledge allegiance. Yeah. Raise your hand. If you can't pay attention, you must have a disease. So we're going to give you some medication. Exactly. Yeah. And then you're like.

[19:07] I probably should have had some of that medication, to be honest. Probably not. No. No. I definitely think I'm an undiagnosed ADHD case. But I feel like almost everybody is. Well, anybody that's any good at anything. We had this conversation yesterday with my friend Eric. And I was like, I think it's a fucking superpower. [19:25] Thank you. [19:26] I really do. I don't think it's negative at all. There's a lot of shit I can't pay attention to if it's boring. Right. If it's boring, I check in and check out. But then do you have super hyper-focus on things that you're obsessed with, right? Oh, yeah. I don't need to sleep. I could stay up for days if something is really interesting, if I get focused, which is why I have to stay away from video games and stuff like that. Oh, yeah. You just get sucked in for hours. Yeah, it's a problem. But it's not just video games. It's anything that I really love. [19:56] But things that I'm not interested in, it's like I can't absorb it. It just goes in. And that's what high school was like for me. It was like I'd be in class. I'd be like, this is torture. But then I'd find something I really loved, and I'd be like fully locked in. But it took a while for me to – because I just thought I was going to be a loser. I'm like, clearly, I can never hold a job. I'm not – I can't take direction. I can't pay attention. Like, there's something wrong with me.

[20:26] got a fringe person that's never, you know, never fits in anywhere. I'm like, okay, this is who I am. I'll just get some weird, odd jobs to feed myself with. Like, this is literally how I was thinking about my future. And look at you now. Well, I got lucky. I found some things that are unconventional. [20:44] But there's so many children out there that are told like, hey, music isn't a career. You know, hey, you know, whatever, acting, writing books, whatever it is, comedy. Somebody is there telling you because they didn't do it that you can't do it. Yeah. Yeah. [21:01] Yep. [21:02] It's a bummer. Like I was an artist when I was young. I wanted to be a comic book illustrator when I was really young. And I had one shitty high school art teacher who was just such a twat. He was so bad. [21:16] And [21:17] I just, I quit art my senior year. I was like, I don't want to go to this guy's fucking class. Like, cause it wasn't a big high school and he was the only art teacher. So I quit. What, what did he do? He was just negative. Oh. He was like, you can't, cause I just wanted to draw what I wanted to draw. Right. You know, and I was into comic book stuff like Conan the Barbarian and superheroes and stuff like that. And he was like, you're not going to make a living doing that. You're most likely going to have to do like advertisements for like diapers, like diaper ads. And I was like. [21:46] Fucking diaper ads? Like, that's his explanation that he used, diaper ads. And I would look at him, and he just looked like he looked depressed. He was like this skinny guy with a pot belly. Well, he's probably an artist that didn't make it as an artist, and he had to become an art teacher instead. Exactly. And so he's, like, bitter and...

[22:03] yeah well we realized that too when we looked at his actual art we were like huh this ain't very good not so inspired there's not a lot of fire in that belly you know this is just a [22:15] boring dude who's just like depressed and sad and he probably drank a lot. We see a skinny person with a big belly. Usually that's like booze. Yeah. Yeah. [22:23] This episode is brought to you by Armra. Every week there's some new wellness hack that people swear by. And after a while, you start thinking – [22:31] Why do we think we can just outsmart our bodies? [22:35] That's why Armra colostrum caught my attention. It's something the body already recognizes and has hundreds of these specialized nutrients for gut stuff, immunity, metabolism, etc. I first noticed it working around training, especially workout recovery. Most stuff falls off, but I am still taking this. If you want to try, Armra is offering my listeners 30% off plus two free gifts. Go to armra.com slash Rogan. [23:05] the music industry, I feel like a lot of the experts... [23:08] in the game are just like people who [23:11] were artists and didn't make it, and now they're bitter, and then they try to [23:14] tell you how everything should go or how you should do everything. Oh, yeah. [23:20] Thank you. [23:20] That got me for a while when I was really young. I feel like those people are like weights that you have to carry. You build up resistance. You build up strength from dealing with those bullshit people. Because they're stupid ideas. They actually get in your head and you have to wrestle with them. For sure. Especially when you're super young. When I first moved to LA, I was 17. Whoa. By yourself? Yeah. Whoa. Yeah. That's crazy. And I was very green-yed.

[23:50] small town Midwest girl. Whoa. Just dropped in LA and like, and really pretty. [23:55] That's a terrible combination. Oh, it's weird. Really pretty 17... [24:00] It was weird as fuck. Midwest. Oh, God. Yeah. Look at you now. Shaved head, tattoo on it. [24:09] Yep. Yeah, you came out on the other end good, though. [24:12] But isn't it true, though, that those kind of experiences, like experiencing oddity and uncertainty and just like – [24:21] the weirdness of like moving to a place like LA when you're 17. [24:25] Thank you. [24:26] All right. [24:27] When you get through it on the other end, you're a different person. You're a stronger person. For sure. [24:32] I mean, every experience makes you stronger, right? So... [24:35] Thank you. [24:36] Yeah, I just threw myself into this... [24:39] Crazy mix in LA. And it was culture shock. [24:45] So what year was this when you moved to L.A.? [24:49] So I was 17, so... And I was in the... [24:52] graduate or should have been in the graduating class of 2004. [24:56] So... [24:58] So somewhere around that time. 2003, 2004. Yeah. [25:02] Yeah. Yeah. And I lived with the guitar player from Culture Club. [25:07] Really? Roy Hay. Wow. Yeah. He had a house in Venice, and I crashed on his couch, and... [25:15] It was wild. Culture. Wild. Boy George. Mm-hmm.

[25:20] Do you hang out with boy George? No. [25:22] Never? No, he wasn't there. You ever meet him? He was just a guitar player. On the phone. Oh. [25:27] Thank you. [25:28] Yeah. [25:29] That's wild. There was a... [25:32] Murder Next Door the first month I moved in. [25:36] Yeah, there's like a bloody mattress in the little alleyway between the houses and they caution taped off all the houses and they had to question us about like, did we hear screaming and... [25:49] So I was just like sitting there on the steps. [25:53] um not allowed to leave while they were taking the body out and then the coroner after he put the body in the truck he came and sat next to me on the steps and started like hitting on me he was like he was like you're a very beautiful girl i'm like you were just touching a dead body this is so weird where am i oh god that's crazy yeah welcome to la yeah he got over that dead [26:23] from yeah fucking blood in his fingernail yeah gross wow that's a movie mm-hmm uh [26:34] Well... [26:35] LA in 2003 was still okay. [26:39] Yeah. It was like [26:40] Not bad, you know. [26:43] It was still traffic and everything, but it hadn't gone completely sideways like it is now. It's so weird. When I go back, I'm like, this is unrecognizable. It doesn't seem like the same place. Every building has a for-lease sign on it. It's like, this is nuts. It's hard to believe that this is – that you're – like –

[27:03] When you see things like Detroit... [27:05] Did you ever see that movie Roger and Me? Mm-mm. It's a great movie. It's Michael Moore, and it's all about the collapse of the Detroit... [27:13] automotive industry and how they moved all the plants to Mexico and when they did that [27:20] the entire economy of Detroit and Flint, Michigan and all these areas just [27:26] collapsed. Like... [27:29] tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people out of work instantaneously with no prospects. The industry was gone. And it's a horrific... [27:38] This depiction of what can happen when greedy people decide that they'll they'll completely sabotage an entire city so they can make. [27:50] you know, X amount more dollars and move all the factories to places where you can pay people a dollar a day or whatever the fuck they pay them. [27:58] and um [27:59] I had seen that, but I was like, [28:03] Oh, that was, you know, 1980s or 1960s, whenever, when the... [28:09] The place was booming. Like Detroit was at one point in time, I think the third richest city in the world. Well. Yeah. [28:16] See if that's true. [28:17] I'm pretty sure it's true. [28:20] Um... [28:21] It was all just because of the automobile manufacturing. I mean, everything was made there. Ford, Chevy, Chrysler, all of our big cars. And it just... [28:31] Yeah, like a ghost town. Like a ghost town. And, you know, and when I visited Detroit to work, I'd be like, wow, this is crazy. You see trees growing through the middle of houses, the houses are collapsed. And like, literally, nobody took care of the house. It was abandoned. So trees grow through the roofs, and they're reclaiming these homes. You see.

[28:52] You go by these gigantic, like... [28:56] buildings, like industrial buildings, all the windows are broken. Everything. No reliable historical source shows Detroit as the third richest city in the world. The common claim is actually that Detroit was the richest city in the world, or at least the U.S., was one of the highest living standards around 1950s, not third. Oh, so it was the richest? Whoa. [29:18] That's the common claim of what it actually was. Very high, medium household income, around 20% above U.S. average, [29:26] the automotive industry. One of the highest home ownership rates in the country. [29:30] Because of this, many commentators and locals' histories describe Detroit as the wealthiest city in the U.S. and by some accounts having the highest standard of living in the world in that era. [29:41] Articles and tours about Detroit repeatedly refer to it as the wealthiest city in the world in the 1950s, not as the third wealthiest. [29:50] So is that true then, that it was the wealthiest city in the world? Yes. [29:56] tours about Detroit's history. The third richest city in the world line seems to come from its memes, social posts. Okay. These posts are often mixed or exaggeration of real facts. Detroit truly was exceptionally rich by U.S. standards, but rankings like third in the world are not backed by clearly documented global per capita income comparisons from that period. [30:20] Well, so it was rich. It was very wealthy. Very wealthy. Either way. And when you think about the rest of the world,

[30:27] You know, like, you know, people love to use that term, the 1%, like the top 1%. Do you know what that is? Like for the world? [30:34] No, no. What is it? $34,000. No freaking way. [30:38] Yeah. [30:39] $34,000 is the top 1% of Earth. That's crazy. Crazy. [30:47] Thank you. [30:47] That's crazy. What is it for the U.S.? 1%. If I had to guess... [30:54] Let's guess. [30:56] um... [30:58] I bet it's like $500,000 a year. [31:03] Do you think? [31:04] What do you think it is? [31:05] $250. $250? [31:08] What do you think it is, Jamie? That's my guess. I don't know, though. [31:11] 150? Yeah. [31:12] Top 1%? Yeah. Wow. [31:15] All right, let's throw that in perplexity. I was guessing. I didn't want to look. Throw that sucker in perplexity. [31:22] What did I say? Half a million? Yeah. Top 1% of the U.S., 700,000. [31:27] You're the closest. [31:29] 700,000 to 800,000 or more depending on the data source and year. [31:33] That's pretty crazy. So for the United States, $790,000 per year. [31:41] most analysis. And then for the rest of the world, [31:45] $34,000. [31:47] Wow. [31:48] Crazy. [31:50] That's wild. That's wild. Yeah. That's capitalism. Yeah. [31:57] But...

[31:57] I bet there's probably some truth to in order for the United States to have such a high income. These other countries have to get bucked over. Globally, you only need an annual income on the order of 60,000 to 70,000 to be the top 1%. Oh, it used to be 34,000. I mean, I'm sure it fluctuates. [32:19] One widely cited analysis found in 2012, annual income of $50,000. [32:24] was enough to be in the global 1%. So where does that 34,000 come from? It was a meme that was going around, too. Oh, fucking memes. It might have been kind of true, but... [32:32] again. [32:33] I saw it repeated by someone very intelligent. I've looked it up before but I think it was [32:38] Okay. [32:40] Either way. [32:41] I get, I get those memes get me all the time. I'm like, babe, look at this. And then you go to the comments and it's like, oh, I'll fake. Yeah. There's a lot of that. [32:51] But, you know, that's the dirty thing about what they did with Detroit, like – [32:56] They decided that they'll take advantage of these people that are ultra poor, that are willing to work with. And it's not just that they get paid a dollar a day or whatever they get paid. There's no health care. [33:09] There's no benefits. There's no retirement. There's no dental. There's no nothing. You just get that money and then figure it out on your own and then – [33:18] you know, you buy a Ford car and you think it's made... [33:22] in America. [33:24] Commonly repeated claim, the annual income, about $34,000 U.S., puts you in the top 1% of the world. But this comes from rough, older viral estimates. It's not based on current, rigorous global data. More careful tools and data sets now suggest that $34,000 places you well above the global median, but likely closer to roughly the top 5% to 10% worldwide rather than the top 1%.

[33:50] Okay, so... [33:53] It appears in social posts. 60 is still like... Right, you're barely getting by. If you make $50,000 in America, you're fucking struggling. Unless you're super young, you don't have any responsibilities. And where they pay t-shirts? [34:06] That's a good question. [34:07] Like, what's the average... [34:09] Public school teacher salary in America. [34:13] Let's guess. [34:14] You think it's like $60,000? I think it's about that. I bet it's about that. Yeah. I had to guess. [34:20] Might be less, actually. [34:23] Was it? [34:27] Dun, dun, dun. [34:29] $74,000. [34:32] Public school teachers now average $74,000 to $75,000 per year. [34:36] So that's like, you know, you're okay. [34:40] It depends on where you live. Well, if you live in New York, you're fucked. Yeah. If you live in New York, you live in a box. Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty good for Wisconsin. [34:50] Okay. State averages, lowest paying states to above $90,000 and the highest paying ones like California and New York. So California and New York, $90,000. [35:03] Oh, starting teacher pays significantly lower than the overall average. National estimate of the average starting teacher salary of about $48,000. Wow. Meaning it takes years of experience and often advanced degrees to reach... [35:17] Or exceed that $74,000 average. So if you get really intelligent people, even if they love children, they're like, I can't do this. I can't live like this. Yeah. Yeah.

[35:26] You start off at $48,000 a year, that's fucking bonkers. That's crazy. [35:31] That's not even $1,000 a week, and then you have taxes, and then you have an apartment, and then you have food, and then you have a car. Kids. Kids. [35:39] Oh, yeah. [35:40] Ugh. [35:42] How do people do it? Which is weird that we put our priorities... [35:48] Um... [35:49] In strange places, like the amount of money that goes through, you know, various corporations and NGOs and the amount of loans that all this different fucking shit that where our tax dollars go. And you look at that and you're like, that seems so short sighted. Mm hmm. [36:08] Very. Yeah. Yeah. [36:10] No politician runs on that. [36:12] No politician's like, we need a [36:14] really find the best teachers and pay them the most amount of money that we can afford to make sure that we get the best and the brightest. [36:21] Everybody's like, fuck you. [36:25] It's weird. Yeah, it is. People are strange. Yeah. [36:30] I wish you could, like... [36:32] Check boxes of where you want your tax dollars to go. Oh, 100%. Yeah. I want it to go to education or whatever. Yeah. Imagine if that was an option, if when you voted, you could actually vote on where your taxes went. Yeah. Yeah. [36:46] Like not even voted. It should be actually individually. He might have to pee. Yeah. [36:52] He's acting in a... Let him out. Yeah, let him out. Because generally he would be chilling by now.

[37:00] And when he huffs like that, he's usually trying to let you know something. Yeah, like that's what he does when he has to eat. He huffs. He comes around. He's like, I get it. I go chill out, bro. My dog does that when she senses something outside. [37:15] like a coyote or something. She starts huffing. [37:19] Well, you guys were saying you have one of them giant Caucasian shepherds? [37:23] Yeah, it's a Central Asian Shepherd. [37:26] We have an alibi. I guess there's a lot of different breeds under the Central Asian Shepherd list. [37:33] They're all herding dogs, right? They're like protect. It's a protection livestock. Yeah. Pull up the image of an alibi dog. [37:42] Just Google Wolf Crusher. Is that what they call them? Yeah. Yeah. [37:48] How much does it weigh? She's actually on the smaller side. She's like 105 pounds or something. Oh, that is smaller. [37:54] But her head is so massive. Oh, I hear this. [37:57] This is hard. [37:58] They get really big. That's not it. [38:01] That one can't be real. But they are massive. [38:07] Oh, so that's what she looks like. Yeah, pretty much. [38:12] She's all white. [38:14] But those dogs are great for just like keeping track of the property. Yeah. Look at that image. This is wolf crutcher in the bottom, the bottom right there. All right. Go to the left. Right. Left of the wolf grinder thing. Yeah, that one right there. So that I think is like a Turkish Kangol.

[38:31] which is I think the next dog we're going to get. [38:34] Because we need another one. Um... [38:38] Our alibi, Nala, she... [38:41] I'm just like such an animal lover, so she really should be outside living on the ranch. [38:47] But she sleeps in bed. [38:51] So I need an outside dog that's actually watching the livestock, because this past couple weeks we lost... [38:57] 12 chickens and [39:00] Four sheep... [39:02] To what? [39:02] Coyotes. [39:04] Wow. [39:05] Where do you live? Napa. Napa Valley. Wow. You have that many coyotes out there? Oh, they are invading our property right now. It's been... The last few weeks have been really rough. Once they know that there's food there. Yeah. Once they taste the blood, they come back every night. [39:22] This episode is brought to you by LifeLock. Lots of places can accidentally expose you to identity theft. Doctors' offices, online retailers, insurance companies, the list goes on. Thankfully, LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity, which is way more than anyone could do on their own. LifeLock keeps an eye on your personal information, credit applications, finances, and more. [39:52] like new loans or changes to your financial accounts, they'll alert you right away, all through text, phone, email, or the LifeLock app. Even better, alerts are automatically activated the moment you become a LifeLock member. No extra work on your part. Get the alerts that could make all the difference. Don't wait. Join LifeLock now. Visit LifeLock.com slash J-R-E and save up to 30% your first year.

[40:22] slash J-R-E for 30% off terms apply. This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. When you're looking to hire, you consider someone's skills, experience, availability, but even more important than that is someone's enthusiasm. They should want to be there. Finding the right kind of motivation isn't as tough as you think. You just need ZipRecruiter. Try it for free at [40:52] ZipRecruiter connects you with qualified candidates instantly, and their latest feature puts the most interested ones at the top of your list, so you can make sure you're speaking with the right people at the start. Use ZipRecruiter and find enthusiastic talent fast. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. [41:22] That's ZipRecruiter.com slash Rogan. Meet your match on ZipRecruiter. Yeah, I lost all my chickens in California. Yeah. We lost a couple of them every now and then. I had a dog. His name is Johnny Cash, and he was a Mastiff, and he was a sweetheart of a dog, but he was huge. He was like 140 pounds, solid muscle, and these coyotes made friends with him,

[41:52] out with them. And then eventually he got like, [41:54] accustomed to them. And then one day the pool guy accidentally left the gate open. [42:00] And so he went into the area where the chicken coop is. And the chicken coop is, like, completely protected. But we had one of our chickens was brooding. Do you know it? Yeah, yeah. Okay. Of course you do. So when you take chickens, when they're brooding, you have to take them away from the other chickens. And you put them in a smaller coop. And they have to perch. So if they perch, then they don't think that they're sitting on an egg. And then they get over it after a while. Yeah. [42:30] So that he can get the chicken. [42:32] What do you mean? [42:33] I don't know how this motherfucker did it, but it couldn't break down the chicken coop because it was only like 30 pounds. And so it was over there with Johnny. [42:44] And [42:45] All of a sudden, me and my wife and our kids were playing some sort of a, like, Monopoly or something in the living room. And someone yells, coyote. And one of my kids yelled, coyote. And we see the coyote running across the backyard with the chicken in its mouth. [43:02] And then leaps onto the top of the fence. I thought we had like this fence that was probably like – [43:08] six feet tall or something like that, like wrought iron fence. I'm like, I don't keep the coyotes out. No, it leapt like a ballerina, like a gymnast, toes to the top of the fence and then off with the chicken in its mouth. And... [43:21] Part of me was like so impressed that I did that. I wasn't even mad. But I was like, what the fuck? I was like, how did he get that? So we go outside and there's Johnny standing there.

[43:31] In front of this destroyed chicken coop, which clearly he did. Yeah, because the coyote couldn't have done that. And so then he realized that chickens are to be killed. Oh, no. And so someone left the gate open again, and he decided to just go right through the big chicken coop, and he killed nine of them before – [43:53] One of my daughters was screaming, Johnny's in the chicken coop. No. Yeah, he made a mess out of it. [44:00] That's awful. Well, you didn't know. I know, but... My chickens are like my pets. I know. I like snuggle with them and stuff. We lost one to a bobcat last week. Yeah, we had some bobcats take some of ours too, yeah. And we lost one to a fox last week. [44:15] We lost one to a fox like a couple weeks ago. Do you free-range your chickens? Yeah. You let them out of the coop every day? Yeah. They get out of the coop and then we bring them in at night. But the, you know, fucking animals, they figure it out. Yeah. [44:28] Last week... [44:29] Because we let the chickens out every morning. It was 6.30 in the morning, and this coyote came and killed 12, like back to back. One coyote? Well, on the cameras, we only saw one. [44:42] Wow. Yeah. [44:44] So it was like surplus killing. [44:46] Yeah, thrill killing. [44:48] Well, they don't – they kill and then they leave them there and then they go back and get them later. They do that with cats. I mean mountain lions do that for sure. Mm-hmm. [44:57] Yeah. [44:59] Yeah, it was weird.

[45:01] He just killed them all and then... [45:04] took like a few of them with him [45:05] Left some of them. [45:07] Mmm. [45:08] Motherfuckers. It was awful. I was broken because it took my favorite chicken and... [45:14] Her name is Big Cheeks. [45:17] She was the sweetest. She would like cum like a dog. [45:20] You could call her name and she would come to you and [45:22] Do you eat chicken? Yeah. But not my chickens. I don't eat my chickens either, but it's always weird because my wife treats the chickens like they're little babies. Like, hey, girls. Hey, girls. She takes care of them and all that stuff, and then we'll be eating chicken. [45:36] Yeah. [45:39] It's odd. Yeah. It's odd. I mean, we have cows too. And I eat beef. [45:45] Do you eat your cows? [45:46] Well, they're not technically our cows, so we have an arrangement with a... [45:50] the cattle guy, and he just uses our property to graze them. Okay. Because we need the cows, because we have a biodynamic vineyard. Oh. And so we use the cows in the vineyard. [46:01] Um... [46:02] Thank you. [46:03] like for a few months out of the year just because... [46:06] It creates a great ecosystem and also their footprints make little puddles and the water gathers because we're also dry farmed. [46:14] What's that mean? [46:15] We don't water... [46:17] are grapes. Really? Yeah. [46:20] So, um, why is that? [46:23] I'm not the wine expert, but I think it's because, uh, you get like a better flavor profile if you like. [46:31] It's more concentrated if you don't overload them with water.

[46:36] And also it makes the vines struggle. [46:39] in a good way, so it makes them reach deeper, like the roots reach deeper into the ground. [46:45] And so you get more... [46:46] Like... [46:47] Flavor, I guess. [46:48] And so this is your own wine? So we don't make the wine. We sell the grapes to... [46:55] I think we have five different winemakers now. They're all doing single estate wines from our property. [47:03] So they're not blending it with anything. [47:06] drink the wine from our property, but it's not our label because I don't want to go out there and sell wine and make people taste my wine. And I don't want to go down that whole marketing. It's like I have a whole other job. I don't need that one. We just handle the farming. [47:21] That's cool, though. [47:22] If somebody wanted to buy wine from your property, what are the wines? Well, our property is called Glass Rock. [47:29] And so Pilcrow... [47:32] Glass Rock. [47:34] Tansy glass rock. Oh, so they all say glass rock based on the farm? They have like a... They're... [47:40] brand name or whatever and then underneath it'll say like the vineyard site. [47:45] So if you get it from a glass rock. I'm going to buy some wine from your farm. Oh, I'll send you some. Do you like wine? I do. [47:51] Oh. I do. I like wine. Okay. I'm going to just mail you a package of all of the wines from our property. Okay. Cool. [48:00] It's all Cabernet, but we're taking like an old world approach to it because Napa cabs are like super powerful, tons of alcohol, and that's not really my style. I like like French and Italian wines usually. And so all the winemakers we're working with are taking that approach. And so we're picking a little bit earlier, lower sugars, lower alcohol.

[48:21] It's really delicious, delicate, beautiful wine. How did you get involved in this? [48:27] Um... [48:28] Well, I... [48:29] I got really into wine... [48:31] Like, in my... [48:33] 20s. And then... [48:36] I... [48:37] took a trip to Napa for a birthday, and it's so beautiful there. [48:42] Have you been to Napa? Oh, yeah. It's gorgeous. So I just fell in love with the area. Yeah. [48:46] And then I met the love of my life at the grocery store there. [48:51] I was buying a watermelon and he asked if he could carry my melon for me. [48:56] And that was his pickup line. [48:58] I actually turned him down, though. I said no. Yeah. [49:07] um, [49:08] Carlo Mondavi is his best friend. Do you know Mondavi? Mondavi Wines? Yeah. Yeah. [49:15] He's grandson of Robert Mondavi. [49:19] And so they're like best friends. And Carlo, I was living in Park City, Utah at the time. [49:25] And Carlo had a house in my neighborhood. So that was like our mutual connection friend. Um... [49:34] And so... [49:35] I would just come to Napa to visit Carlo and he would teach me about all the wine stuff. And, um... [49:42] And that's how I met Elliot... [49:44] when we were at the grocery store and [49:48] Then a year later, we... [49:50] got together officially. We just kind of like kept in touch. I was married at the time he was in a relationship. So it was very dramatic.

[49:58] But long story short, it was very dramatic. Turned into a crazy divorce, five-year lawsuit, all this crazy shit. But anyway. Those are fun. Yeah, it was fantastic. So then I moved to Napa and moved in with Elliot. Elliot. [50:16] a year after we met. And so then we, but we lived in St. Helena, which is like a town up the valley from, from Napa proper. And, um, it was like a 400 acre, um, [50:27] ranch out in the middle of nowhere um and we had like a 400 square foot house like a little tiny cabin basically that we lived in and after a while like getting cats and stuff i was like this is really small and i have like i have to make music i have to record and like having a studio in a 400 square foot house it was just you know so then we ended up um buying this house down in in napa and we bought it for the house but there was a vineyard there and so we were like we got to [50:57] was conventionally farmed up to that point. [50:59] Conventionally meaning irrigated? Like irrigated, they use pesticides, like, you know, like pretty much... [51:08] Most of the... [51:09] Well, vineyards... [51:11] you know? Yeah. And, but we're very all about [51:15] organic and everything. That's great too because one of the things that we were reading the other day was about glyphosate in California wines and that they tested a bunch of California wines and all of them had glyphosate in it. Yeah so we don't use any of that. That's awesome. Yeah we're very anti. So we transformed the vineyard

[51:34] into this biodynamic organically farmed [51:38] Did you know how to do that before that, or did you read books? How did you find out how to do it? No, we hired a farmer for a while. [51:44] from France. [51:46] that [51:48] That was his forte, basically. [51:51] So we transformed the vineyard and then now Elliot's out there doing a lot of the farming. Obviously we have help. [51:57] Um... [51:58] It's because we have like something like nine acres planted, a vineyard. And so we have help, but he's out there running the tractors and stuff. [52:09] Wow. Yeah. That's such a romantic life. He's always done... [52:13] He's always done a lot of tractor work. [52:17] but not ever in a vineyard. So. [52:19] It's all new to us, but it's fun. That life of, like, being on a piece of land and growing something there and, like, living with animals, that is, like, the romantic life that everybody thinks about. It really is. Is it that cool? Yeah, it's awesome. You've got to come. [52:37] I think you'll love it. It sounds amazing. I want to do that. I've thought about doing that many times, like buying a ranch, living on a ranch. It's just like... [52:45] I get terrified of like, [52:48] adding one more thing to my life that will probably push out some things or [52:54] eat up time. I just don't know where I'm getting that time from. That's the only hesitation that I have. [53:00] You just hire help. Yeah, but then you have to talk to them and you have to deal with that. Yeah, you have to manage it all. You have to deal with interpersonal drama between the help. Like, Mike's a piece of shit. Let me tell you. Look at the fuck. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's worth it, though. Honestly, it really is. I bet it is. It's so peaceful.

[53:17] Being in the industry I'm in. [53:19] going out and, like, touring and... [53:21] Just being in big cities and then coming home to this peaceful, serene ranch life. A real balance. Yeah, it's the perfect balance. Yeah. [53:30] Well, that is probably the key to staying sane as a performer, like having a balance. I think so. [53:39] Because so many of them just fucking stay on the road and... [53:44] You kind of like lose your roots. You lose your grounding. Uh-huh. You're always performing. Well, and for me, like living in L.A. really ruined my creativity. [53:55] How so? [53:57] I think a lot of it was like... [54:00] I'm... [54:02] I have a tendency to give everybody too much power. So all these so-called experts listening to their opinions about what I was doing just got in my head. And so... [54:15] Removing myself, being able to remove myself from those characters and personalities telling me what they thought I should be doing, like writing about, singing about, dressing, whatever. [54:29] I need to have open spaces to really hear my own [54:32] inner voice and like my gut, you know? Um, so I left LA when I was, [54:38] 23. [54:40] and [54:41] I moved up to Oregon. [54:43] For a while, I lived in a cabin. [54:45] By yourself? Yeah. Really?

[54:48] How did you find it? [54:50] Um... [54:51] Well, I had been on tour... [54:55] and [54:56] I was playing keyboards and singing backups for somebody else. So... [55:01] I can back up a little bit. So I got my first record deal when I was... [55:04] 18 or something. And... [55:07] put out an album that was with Warner Brothers. Linkin Park signed me. [55:14] And I was going by the name Holly Brooke at the time. That's my first and middle name. [55:17] And so I put out an album... [55:20] through that and it completely flopped and I went broke. And LA is so expensive. And I had spent all my college savings to move out to LA and make demos and... [55:32] everything. So I had nothing left. [55:34] And, um... [55:36] So then I had taken... [55:38] For the first time in my life, I had to get some jobs. [55:41] like [55:42] not just performing. So I worked in Barnes & Noble [55:46] um [55:47] I taught gymnastics, [55:50] And I edited porn. [55:53] You edited porn? Mm-hmm. Whoa. Whoa. [55:58] That was a great experience. That's got to be weird. It was weird. How did you take that job? How did you even find out about that job? Well, it was a Craigslist ad and it was just like, we need video editors. And I was like, oh, I can, I can figure that out. Cause I edit in Pro Tools and stuff, music. So it can't be that hard.

[56:21] And they said they would train. [56:22] So I showed up to the interview in a suit. [56:25] And they were like, so you know this is adult content? [56:31] Because it didn't say that in the ad. That's how they brought it up? You know this is adult content? Yeah. How the fuck would you know? And they're like, are you cool with that? [56:39] I was like... [56:41] I guess so, because I need the job. [56:43] And so I just took it. [56:45] And it was a 9 to 5, literally just looking at, like, the most disgusting shit you can imagine. [56:53] Two girls, one cup has got nothing on my song. Really? Yeah. This episode is brought to you by SimpliSafe. One thing you probably don't think about when you're planning the perfect summer getaway is protecting your home. But if disaster strikes, you want to be prepared. Even better, if it can be stopped before it happens. So check out SimpliSafe. They're the smarter option when it comes to home security because their systems help prevent and stop crime in real time before it starts. [57:23] contracts, and no technician appointments. You can get a custom system and set it up in one afternoon by yourself or even sooner. It's one of many reasons why millions of people continue to trust and use SimpliSafe. Everyone deserves to have peace of mind, which is why I'm happy to partner with SimpliSafe again and offer an exclusive discount. Right now, you can get 50%

[57:53] dot com slash Rogan. There's no safe like SimpliSafe. [57:57] This episode is brought to you by Visible. How many of you are currently listening to this podcast on your phone? If you are chronically online, like most of us are these days, your wireless network should be too. With Visible, you get unlimited 5G and unlimited hotspot, all powered by Verizon's 5G network. The perks of big wireless for half the cost. Visible isn't just a wireless plan. [58:27] designed to keep you connected and no contract holding you back. Switch today at visible.com. Plan start at just $25 a month or get our premium Visible Plus Pro Plan and save $10 on your first month when you use promo code ROGAN, an exclusive offer for podcast listeners. [58:50] So it was like hardcore. Hardcore porn. And it was like... [58:56] It wasn't editing feature films. It was taking a feature film and then cutting out all the highlights. [59:01] so that I could make basically reels. [59:04] Or like, you know, it wasn't Instagram, but... [59:08] basically like these little clips that people would search and and find like a [59:12] a cum shot or like a cream pie or whatever search term they would use to find this specific little clip. And so I would, [59:19] put together these little clips and then tag it with all the search terms somebody would use to find it. That was the job. And so it was all just like...

[59:28] watch the whole film and pick out all the... [59:31] most disgusting moments you can find and turn that into a clip. [59:37] Um, [59:39] And then I started getting this thing called the Tetris effect. Have you heard of that? No. So, like, if you play Tetris for too long, you start seeing, like, the shapes falling. You hallucinate, basically. [59:48] So you'll just like be making dinner or whatever. And you're just like hallucinating like the Tetris shapes. But I was hallucinating like gaping buttholes then. [1:00:02] Yeah. Oh, my God. [1:00:04] And so how long did you do that? I only lasted two weeks, but it was the best paying job. [1:00:11] Out of all of them that I had, because I got paid by how many clips I got done in a certain amount of time. And so I was making like 30 bucks an hour, which is great for a high school dropout, you know. And so it was good money, but... [1:00:26] I, um... [1:00:28] With the Tetris Effect thing happening to me, [1:00:31] Um... [1:00:33] There was like a light socket over my bed. [1:00:37] that I had taken the light bulb out of because it was too bright. And every night when I fall asleep, I would like stare at that and see a gaping butthole. [1:00:56] Then I also simultaneously got offered to be a keyboardist.

[1:01:00] for this other singer, Duncan Sheik. He's like a 90s... He had a song called Barely Breathing in the 90s. Um... [1:01:07] And I was a fan. And so I was like, well, that sounds like a better job. [1:01:11] Definitely. To enough music, at least. So I went on tour with him for a while. I don't know if it was like a year or two. [1:01:20] But the whole time... [1:01:22] I was just like, [1:01:24] I wish I was making my own music and singing my own music, you know? [1:01:28] It started really eating at me. [1:01:30] being like the backup musician. And so I was like journaling a lot on tour and I wrote, I just want a cabin in the woods where I can set up my studio. [1:01:39] and be away from all these people and... [1:01:43] Basically I manifested the cabin because [1:01:46] Like six months after I wrote that in my journal, my mom called me and she was like, my friend has this property in Oregon and she has a cabin and she's willing to let you live there for free. [1:01:56] You just have to work in her art gallery selling art like twice a week. [1:02:02] And I was like, that sounds perfect. [1:02:04] Wow. So that's what I did. That's how you wound up in Oregon. So that's how I wound up in Oregon. What part of Oregon? [1:02:10] It's the southern coast. It was in the middle of nowhere, but it's basically near Bandon. Do you know where Bandon Dunes Golf Course is? No. Have you heard of that? No. It's a really famous golf course, but... [1:02:21] It was kind of near there. And... [1:02:24] I lived there for like six months. [1:02:29] Um...

[1:02:30] Set up my studio. [1:02:31] Kind of like had to rediscover my love for music and fall back in love with it because I had like writer's block and I was really depressed. [1:02:39] I had also... [1:02:40] Just before that, broke up with my boyfriend at the time. And my heart was broken. And it was just like, I was... [1:02:47] I was a mess. [1:02:50] But my cabin was... [1:02:52] this really small one room [1:02:55] Cabin. [1:02:56] with one light bulb, [1:02:59] And there was no bathroom. [1:03:01] in it. [1:03:02] There was a bathroom outside. [1:03:04] And so I had to walk in the middle of the night if I had to pee. I had to walk to the bathroom and I was terrified. Where was the bathroom? Was it an outhouse? No, it had a flushing toilet and a shower. But it was like a standalone? But it was separate from the cabin and down a path. By itself? Yeah. Just a bathroom? Yeah. [1:03:22] Well, because the cabin was like an old fire lookout. [1:03:27] That they turned into a cabin? Yeah. [1:03:29] So it didn't have like plumbing or something. So they like add, I don't know. [1:03:34] It was really beautiful. [1:03:37] And it was also at the top of a sand dune, so I couldn't drive up to it. [1:03:40] So I had to park it down the hill and hike to it. [1:03:43] How far was the hike? [1:03:45] Like a quarter mile. [1:03:46] Every day. [1:03:47] Yeah. [1:03:48] Yeah. [1:03:50] And I didn't have, like, internet or anything up there. [1:03:53] - Wow. [1:03:55] But it was great. [1:03:56] But I was terrified of mountain lions. [1:03:59] the whole time. And so I would like,

[1:04:01] you know, walking up that hill at night if I came home from whatever. [1:04:06] I had my flashlight and was like looking all directions. And I actually made a mask to wear on the back of my head. Because apparently like eye contact with a mountain lion, like they won't attack. [1:04:19] And so because they attack you from behind. So like wear a mask on the back of my head. [1:04:24] Whoa. Who told you how to do that? [1:04:28] I don't know, Google... [1:04:31] I don't know if it's real, but I did it. [1:04:34] It's real for tigers. There's a group of people that work for the government in the Sundarbans. So the Sundarbans is this area in India that's notorious for tigers. [1:04:46] tigers eating people and apparently [1:04:50] Over the wall. [1:04:51] Let's just Google this number because I'll fuck this up too. I think over the last 200 years... [1:04:58] Something insane, like 300,000 people have been killed by tigers. What? In this area. Yeah. [1:05:04] That's insane. Yeah. Well, there's a lot of villages there, and then there's also typhoons. [1:05:10] And apparently when these storms happen, sometimes people die and they wind up in the river. [1:05:16] And, you know, they get washed away. And the tigers apparently developed a taste for human beings. [1:05:22] And then there's also this thought about... [1:05:28] The water, the water is not fresh. It's brackish. So the water has a high salt content in it, but they still drink it because it's the only salt water. So they're probably constantly irritated.

[1:05:40] The Sundarbans are usually prone to attacking, sometimes eating humans, causing dozens of deaths every year. But not every tiger there is a man-eater. Aw, sweet. Historical reports suggest Sundarbans tigers regularly killed 50 to 60 people per year, with some estimates over 100, especially... [1:06:00] including unreported cases. [1:06:03] Most recent expert estimates put the average about 22 to 23 human deaths per year in the Sundarbans, far lower than the popular perception. [1:06:12] Well, there's like clusters of attack. Oh, yeah, here it is. Local news reported clusters of attacks, multiple fishermen and crab catchers killed within a month, showing that risk can spike in certain areas or seasons. I had a bit in my 2009 comedy special about this attack that happened in the Sundarbans where there was four guys in a boat. [1:06:33] And this tiger swam out to the boat, killed a guy, dragged him to shore, dropped his body off, jumped back in the water, swam to the boat, killed another guy, jumped back in the water. Did it with three guys before he got tired. And the last guy just fucking shitting his pants on the boat by himself. One guy lived. So these are the people that would walk around with these masks on the back of their heads. Oh, wow. Yeah. So... [1:06:59] I did the right thing. Yeah, you did the right thing. Well, at least for tigers. But there's... I mean, I'll catch... Isn't that crazy? Look at these people all living around there. [1:07:08] These are honey collectors in the Sundarbans.

[1:07:11] To prevent tiger attacks like you got to know there's a lot of tiger attacks when you're wearing a fucking mask around your head when you're going to work. [1:07:19] Woo. Yeah, that's creepy. Yeah. [1:07:24] Fucking scary. It's a crazy way to die, too. Mm-hmm. [1:07:28] you know. [1:07:29] Especially a Tiger. It's probably pretty quick, though. [1:07:32] I guess once they get a hold of you, it's just smush to get the back of your neck. Yeah. I mean, it probably happens fast. All right. Yeah. Mountain lion would probably take a little longer. Yeah. [1:07:41] I don't know. [1:07:42] Yeah. [1:07:43] Probably 20 minutes. 15, depending on how much you scream. [1:07:50] Yeah. [1:07:51] Yeah. We've had to deal with those, too. Did you have a gun or anything when you were up there? No. No? [1:07:56] Did you think about getting one? [1:07:59] No, I didn't, actually. [1:08:01] I had an axe. [1:08:04] It's better than nothing. I was just chopping wood because I had a little wood stove. But if you were really afraid of mountain lions, huck me and didn't get a gun. [1:08:12] I don't know. I didn't even think about it. I don't know why. [1:08:15] Wow. [1:08:17] That would have been the first thing I thought of. [1:08:20] There's not a fucking chance in hell I'm walking around there without a gun. [1:08:23] Yeah. [1:08:25] I don't think at that point I was into guns yet. [1:08:30] Are you into them now? Yeah. [1:08:32] Yeah? We have a gun range in our house. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. Elliot's very into them. [1:08:38] Thank you. [1:08:39] I have a carry permit.

[1:08:41] Good for you. Yeah. [1:08:43] Good. [1:08:44] um [1:08:46] Have you ever seen a big cat in the wild? Oh, yeah. [1:08:49] A mountain lion. Yeah. What was the biggest one you saw? [1:08:52] Like a real big one? [1:08:54] Um... [1:08:56] I don't think the ones I saw were huge. Yeah. [1:08:59] there were like a hundred [1:09:00] Maybe $150. The first one I ever saw was just in Colorado. It actually wound up getting one of my dogs. And this was... They got your dog? Mm-hmm. No. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, man. [1:09:14] I lived in a place called Gold Hill. It's like north of Boulder. So it's like 3,000 feet above Boulder. It's fucking beautiful. Gorgeous. I would have stayed there. But – [1:09:26] Um... [1:09:27] It's very high altitude. It's like 8,500 feet above sea level. And my wife got pregnant. [1:09:36] pregnant at very high altitude and you're not accustomed to that it's like you have the flu every day it's horrible and we wound up going back to la but [1:09:45] So that was the first one that I saw. And then I saw one in Santa Barbara. [1:09:50] I saw one in, actually in Montecito. We were driving. [1:09:54] And I saw this thing running across the road. I was like, oh, is that a coyote? And then I saw the tail. Yeah, the tail's the giveaway. And I was like, oh, it's a fucking mountain lion. Like, that's wild. But that one wasn't even that big. That was like 70 pounds. [1:10:06] And then a couple years ago, I was in Utah with my friend Colton and we were driving around this corner and he goes, "Dude, look under that tree. Look at that cat." And we see the glowing eyes of this cat because it was like just starting to get dark out. And I was probably 30 yards from this thing in the truck with the binoculars just looking at its head.

[1:10:30] Its fucking head was massive, like a pumpkin. Like the muscles, the mandible muscles were like these things around its head. [1:10:40] crushing machine and these huge forearms. That's what I remember about it the most. His forearms were massive and it was just sitting there under that tree staring at us. [1:10:51] And I was in the truck. Like I wasn't, you know, we were armed and we were in a truck and I was still shitting my pants. Like that thing is so big. How much do you think I weighed? [1:11:00] At least 180 pounds, maybe 200. It was a big tomcat. Like that one that we have out front, like that, like that size. Wow. Yeah. It was like that one was one my friend Adam Greentree killed. And he killed that in Colorado. And that one, they had a depredation permit because it was targeting this rancher's cows. And they had tracked it. [1:11:30] It was still alive. It just gutted it. It basically took it down and just started eating its organs while it was still alive. Yeah, that's what they do. Yeah. [1:11:40] It was pretty rough. Yeah. They're monsters. We had an issue with mountain lions up at our other property in Napa. Yeah. [1:11:47] We had sheep. [1:11:48] And, um... [1:11:50] I was actually on tour... [1:11:53] With Eminem... [1:11:56] And got a text from my neighbor that our sheep had had babies on Valentine's Day.

[1:12:02] And so I was like so excited to get home and take care of these lambs. [1:12:09] I guess one of the lambs was rejected by the mother, and so... [1:12:14] we had to bottle feed it [1:12:15] So, which is the best thing ever. I love that. You know, some people think it's like a... [1:12:21] unnecessary chore to take care of bottle babies but I love it so like three times a day feeding this thing and she became like a dog like she would follow me everywhere she slept on my front porch um her name was valentine I got a tattoo of her actually [1:12:35] Here. [1:12:36] Oh. [1:12:37] And, um... [1:12:38] Thank you. [1:12:39] But... [1:12:40] So... [1:12:41] like a few months ago, [1:12:43] Later, we had had, like... [1:12:46] maybe 10 lambs at that point. [1:12:49] Little babies are so cute. Um... [1:12:53] And like one morning, [1:12:56] Oh, well, so the property was like 400 acres, and so... [1:13:01] and our house was so small. But we had other little buildings on the property, so I'd set my studio up in one of the other buildings. [1:13:08] And so I would drive up there. It's like a half mile up the... [1:13:12] driveway and [1:13:14] I was driving one day up to the studio and I saw this mountain lion. [1:13:19] like crossing our field. [1:13:21] and I rushed to get my phone out to take a video of it. Of course, I didn't get a very good shot by the time I got the video. [1:13:29] And I turned around and went back to the house. I was like, babe, there's a mountain lion on the property.

[1:13:34] And I showed him the video and it was like kind of blurry. You couldn't really tell. [1:13:39] And we called our neighbor. [1:13:42] And I think the sheriff and... [1:13:45] showed them the video and everybody was just like, well, nine times out of ten when people say they see a mountain lion, it's just a bobcat or like whatever. And I was like, no, I know this is a mountain lion. Like, I know what I'm looking at. [1:13:58] I saw the long tail, the whole thing. [1:14:00] and nobody believed me. [1:14:03] Like it's Bigfoot or something. Yeah. Like, I'm like, no, I swear it's a mountain lion. Yeah. [1:14:09] And Elliot believed me. [1:14:11] So we went up. [1:14:13] And... [1:14:14] took a little hike up the ravine where I'd seen it. [1:14:17] walk off to. [1:14:19] And I swear that... [1:14:22] like, [1:14:23] the lion must have been tracking us back to the house because, you know, [1:14:29] it [1:14:30] That night we were... [1:14:33] Because we didn't see it. We went up to the ravine and we didn't see the lion anywhere. But we went back home. [1:14:38] And then that night we were like... [1:14:41] watching tv and scrolling through instagram or whatever and he showed me this you know how the russians they like become friends with all these crazy animals like bears and whatever so there's like this video of this like russian guy like in bed with his mountain lion like cuddling with it i know right they're psycho they are not regular white people no this episode is brought to you by

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[1:16:48] Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or if you need a vaccine. [1:16:54] Imagine being a million miles away. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimphia. Tap this ad to learn more about Trimphia, including important safety information. [1:17:06] And so he was like, he showed me this video and he's like, I could never kill one of these. [1:17:13] Unless they fucked with my family. [1:17:16] Yeah. That next morning, I take my coffee out onto the front porch like I always did, look down at the sheep pen, and I see this mom sheep laying with her baby that's not moving. [1:17:27] And I was like, this is something that's not right. And I go down there and sure enough, there's like the fang marks, you know, the deep... [1:17:34] Fang marks in its throat. [1:17:36] And [1:17:37] It's like stomach eaten out. [1:17:40] Thank you. [1:17:41] And the mom would not leave its side. Oh. [1:17:44] And so I go back to the house and I'm like, babe, we lost it, a lamb to the mountain lion. Nobody believed that I saw. And so we called Fish and Wildlife. [1:17:56] and they came out and confirmed that it was a mountain land kill. And so they set up, they put traps in our... [1:18:04] Sheet pan. [1:18:06] And, you know, to see if we could like trap it and relocate it. [1:18:10] And, um... [1:18:12] So they stayed on property that night and... [1:18:16] I can't even remember all the details, but basically...

[1:18:19] In the middle of the night, we heard this big bang. [1:18:22] And we thought, oh, the trap closed. [1:18:24] All right. [1:18:24] And we opened the door and... [1:18:27] It wasn't that. It was like one of our sheep had busted through the fence trying to escape the lion. It was standing in our driveway, like right in front of the house. I was like, oh, fuck. So then Elliot goes down to the sheep pen and he sees the lion. And it's like just like those glowing eyes, you know. [1:18:43] And then it darts off into the woods. [1:18:47] And it had killed another lamb. [1:18:49] And [1:18:51] The trap didn't go off. [1:18:54] And so then... [1:18:55] The guys, the truckers... [1:18:58] they came down and [1:19:00] they were like, okay, let's like hunt this thing. Like, [1:19:03] take the dogs. So they had like six dogs. [1:19:06] And... [1:19:07] Basically for the next like week, [1:19:11] tried to get this lion. [1:19:13] And couldn't like the dogs were getting all mixed up. They were like wandering off one direction and then going another direction. And they they're like, and the trackers were like, this has never happened. Like, they usually get it like what, what the hell's going on? They were the dogs are just getting all confused. [1:19:30] And, um... [1:19:33] We basically... Oh, and then another night, Elliot was out there thinking that he heard the guys whistling. But I guess it was the cats whistling? So mountain lions whistle? [1:19:43] Do you know about that? Yeah. [1:19:45] It's a crazy sound. [1:19:47] You can probably look it up. Mountain Lion whistle. I need to hear that. Yeah.

[1:19:52] But he heard... [1:19:54] whistling and he thought it was the trackers like saying like we're here and he like was just standing out there and then 20 minutes go by and the guys aren't there and so then they finally pull up and they're like oh. [1:20:06] Um... [1:20:08] Or he was like, were you guys whistling at me? And they were like, no. Like, did it sound like this? And he was like, yes. And they said, that's the lions. They whistle to communicate with each other. [1:20:19] Put the headphones on so you can hear this. Oh. Okay. [1:20:23] Thank you. [1:20:23] Thank you. [1:20:25] *BEEP* [1:20:31] Whoa. [1:20:33] Thank you. [1:20:37] Yeah. [1:20:40] Thank you. [1:20:54] Oh, that's Tejon Ranch. [1:20:57] I go to that place. That's in California. That's outside of Bakersfield. I've elk hunted there before. That place, Tejon Ranch, they had one pond where they set up a camera trap. They set up trail cameras. They found 18 different cats. [1:21:15] On one pond. That's crazy. That's not normal. Oh, they have a lot of cats over there. Well, California doesn't do anything about them. I know. [1:21:22] They're kind of nuts. Texas has the complete opposite approach. Yeah. You just shoot them. Yeah. Yeah, you don't have to have a permit. They shoot them like coyotes. Well, we got permits. We got permits because...

[1:21:33] They came back and killed every night. [1:21:35] that [1:21:36] And then they took my Valentine's. [1:21:38] And I was like so heartbroken. [1:21:41] There was nothing you could do to lock them up? Well, I tried to bring Valentine into the house and put her in a kennel in the kitchen, but try sleeping with a screaming lamb. [1:21:54] It was not a thing. [1:21:56] We put her back out. [1:21:58] And she was fine that night. [1:22:02] The trappers just kept saying, no, we got to just leave everything as is and we'll get them. But then after a week of hunting them and nothing, it was like... [1:22:12] What are we doing? [1:22:13] Like, we should move these sheep. Like, I was fighting for that, but they were just like, no, we got to keep everything as is, because if you move them... [1:22:21] and change what's going on. The cat will just maybe not come back [1:22:27] for a while, but then it'll come back. [1:22:29] You know? And so they're like, if we're going to get this thing, we got to leave everything as is. [1:22:35] But anyway, so they... [1:22:39] Finally, [1:22:41] got the cat. [1:22:43] One night, I actually had to leave town and do a show, and Elliot called me, and he actually... [1:22:50] He actually was the one that shot it. [1:22:54] But... [1:22:55] They got the cat, and I felt this huge sense of relief. And I came home, and I thought everything was fine, and we weren't going to lose any more lambs. And then a few days later...

[1:23:08] I woke up and took my coffee outside and... [1:23:10] There was a mom sheep dead now, and she was dragged under the fence. [1:23:15] And I was like, what the absolute fuck? [1:23:18] So turns out [1:23:19] there was two cats hunting together and that's why the dogs were getting confused and couldn't follow the trail. Um, [1:23:27] And... [1:23:28] I guess like in the spring... [1:23:30] A lot of times the moms will teach their... [1:23:33] children how to hunt. [1:23:35] And so they weren't even like eating... [1:23:37] The lambs? [1:23:38] They were just killing them. [1:23:40] Um... [1:23:42] And so it was like basically them learning how to hunt, I guess. I don't know. I don't know. But we got another permit and we got the second lion and then everything was peaceful. But we went down from like 20 to three sheep. Oh, God. Yeah, it was awful. Killed 17 sheep. [1:24:00] Holy shit, that must be terrifying. Yeah, and I mean, I'm like out there, I'm scared for myself even. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Living out there and like going into my studio and stuff like... [1:24:10] Thank you. [1:24:11] It was really scary and really heartbreaking. [1:24:15] Awful. I can imagine. 17 is crazy. Yeah. It was really bad. When you shoot the cat, do you have to bring it somewhere and then they have to register it? Well, they took them. The fish and wildlife took the bodies. But yeah, the dogs treat them and... [1:24:35] because uh [1:24:37] people eat them

[1:24:39] Like, they taste good. Really? Yeah. Yeah, I had some. Wouldn't it be kind of like... [1:24:43] tough because they're like so muscly? Eat the loin. Like people eat the roasts. It's like pork. Hmm. [1:24:51] Yeah, my friend Steve described it as a superior pork. [1:24:54] Hmph. [1:24:55] Yeah. A lot of people eat mountain lion. Interesting. I know. It sounds crazy. [1:25:00] I'd try it. Have you ever had bear? I've never had bear. Bear's good. [1:25:04] Really? Yeah, believe it or not. People... [1:25:07] It depends on what the bear is eating. Like if you eat a bear that's eating a lot of fish, it's going to be kind of funky. Or if you catch a bear that's been like eating a dead deer for like a... [1:25:17] couple weeks, that's not good. You know, like a moose, like a dead moose. That's something rotten or nasty. Yeah, it'll smell rotten. But if you catch one that's been eating blueberries, it's a good one. [1:25:30] It's like some of the most delicious meat. Yeah. Yeah. [1:25:32] Yeah, my friend Steve Rinella, he has a show called Meat Eater, and he was hunting black bears in Alaska over this blueberry patch. So he shot this blackberry, and he's cooking it. And as he's butchering it, he did it all on camera. As he's butchering it, like the fat from the bear is purple with like blueberry. And so like the flavor of blueberries was in the meat itself. That's interesting. He's like, it's the most insane meat. It's delicious. I'd try that. [1:26:01] Yeah, it's good. [1:26:02] I like Alcox, my favorite. [1:26:05] um where do you guys you live in napa when are you guys going back [1:26:09] Tomorrow. No, tonight.

[1:26:10] I've got some. I'll give you some. Really? Yeah, I've got a freezer bag. I have a commercial freezer out here. Oh, sick. With some elk. I'll hook you up. Let's go. Let's go. That's by far my favorite meat. Oh, it's delicious. The best. It's the best for you, too. Like, you feel different when you eat it. You're like, whoa. It's like, it's got so much nutrients in it. You've done the axis deer hunting in Hawaii. We want to do that so bad. Oh, it's, first of all, if you use a rifle, it's 100% guaranteed. Really? Like, you can't not get a deer. [1:26:40] so many of them you have to kill them there's a lanai in particular there's 30 000 deer and 3 000 people [1:26:48] Holy shit. Yeah. And so in Lanai, you can actually stay at the Four Seasons. So you stay at this amazing resort, and then you go hunt. [1:26:57] That's awesome. Yeah. [1:26:59] So I went with, well, we've got a few years, but I went with a whole group of friends one time. It was like seven of us. We went there, and we had the best time. We hunted, and then we ate. [1:27:12] Axis deer and it's like you're you're [1:27:15] overlooking the oceans, this gorgeous paradise. Yeah, that sounds like a great vacation. And you're bow hunting deer. But that's a deer that evolved around tigers. Yeah. [1:27:26] And they are so fast, like unbelievably fast. Like if you shoot at one that's 30 yards away and it hears the bow go off, it'll be unbelievable. [1:27:37] out of the way before the arrow gets to it. [1:27:40] They do what's called jumping the string. They just duck down and take off. It's not like they know an arrow is coming at them. They just know to run. And the way they run is they load up their muscles by getting low and then springing forward. But they do it so fast that…

[1:27:56] Okay, 30, 40, let's say 40 yards. So 40 yards, you've got an arrow that's going 290 feet a second. [1:28:05] And from the sound of the bow going off, the top of the bow going off, they're gone. Yeah. Which is insane. But can you hunt with rifle out there? Oh, yeah. Okay. Oh, yeah. That's how they do most of the hunting out there. Okay. We went and I went with a bunch of, like, very experienced bow hunters, like, [1:28:21] top of the food chain, Bowhunters. And we all got access to here, but it was a struggle. It's like a lot of them jumped the string. A lot. You got to, we wound up realizing that the best time to go was at night. [1:28:34] Not at night, but in the afternoon. Because in the afternoon, it's much windier, and so it hides your sound. Because they're just on edge. Because they get hunted 365 days a year. There's no off-season. And they have to hunt them, because there's so many of them. You'll, like, driving at night, you'll stop and turn the headlights to a field, and you just see thousands of eyes. Whoa. Like, they're infested. Infested with delicious animals. And there's no predators. There's zero predators other than people. [1:29:04] So they bring in snipers and people with night vision, and they shoot them at night, and they use headshots. And when you go to, like, the restaurants in the Four Seasons, they serve Axis deer. Oh, that's cool. Oh, it's delicious. It's so good. What is that place, Malibu Farms, I think it is? They have insane venison sliders. [1:29:24] from axis deers are so good that mean it's it's one of the most delicious game animals but

[1:29:30] And when we went, we did a podcast from there and we called it Podcasts from Paradise. We're all having a good time. [1:29:37] Because after that, 150 different people went the next year, and only one of them was successful. [1:29:46] With a bow. [1:29:47] Oh, wow. Every other one was like, fuck this, I'm getting a rifle. This is ridiculous. These things are so fast. But it's an animal that evolved, like I said, around tigers. Yeah. [1:29:57] King Kamehameha in Hawaii was given Axis deer as a gift from the leader of India in like the 1800s. That's how they got there. [1:30:07] And then they just took over. Oh, yeah. They took over. They're everywhere. Yeah. Maui has a lot of them, too. But they also have this company called Maui Nui. So, like, if you love game meat, you can actually buy game meat. So wild game meat in America, you can't sell. So if you buy, like, say if you buy elk, like you go to a restaurant, you buy elk. It's farmed. You're getting it from New Zealand. Oh, wow. Most likely. Yeah. [1:30:37] from New Zealand. [1:30:39] because [1:30:40] New Zealand's a similar situation, no predators. And they brought in all these animals, and then they're just infested. And most of it's probably not even really elk. It's probably stag, which is super similar anyway. But... [1:30:52] When you get like farm raised elk, that's you're probably getting it from somewhere else. I mean, they probably have some places that are allowed to sell farm raised elk in America. I don't know which one that would be, but wild game like that you hunt, you cannot sell because that's how they almost went extinct in this country.

[1:31:15] Oh. In the turn of the century. That makes sense. In the beginning of the, I guess, like the 1800s, the beginning of the 1900s, they brought elk to the point of extinction almost. And the same with whitetail deer. Because they were market hunting. So because no one had refrigerators, you'd have to get meat all the time. And so they were just shooting all of them. [1:31:36] Wow. Yeah. [1:31:37] I didn't know that. Yeah. But in Maui, you have so many of them, and then they set up a company called Maui Nui. In Maui Nui, you can buy bone broth, venison bone broth. They have like meat sticks, and you can buy actual venison, and they'll freeze it and then ship it to you. [1:31:56] So if you want wild game, it's like one of the best places. And one of the most delicious wild game, too. [1:32:01] yeah yeah axis deer is delicious yeah we want to do that hunt for sure oh it's a great hunt yeah because you can't first of all you're in paradise and you you're gonna see them it's not like if you go on an elk hunt like you could be in the mountains for days before you find any elk because you know you got to find out where they are you got to listen for bugles you got to you know you got a glass a lot you gotta look around you might not be successful if you if you bring a rifle to lanai you 100 are going to be successful right [1:32:30] And you can kill a bunch of them. You know, you could. And they like package it for you and ship it home to you? Yeah. There's a guy named Bob the Butcher. Shout out to Bob. He'll butcher them for you and package it for you and all that jazz. And, you know, if you give it enough time, they'll freeze it. And we actually brought it back to the Four Seasons and they put it in their commercial freezer. They froze it for us. And then we, you know, put it in these big Yeti coolers and brought it back on the plane. Nice. Nice.

[1:32:59] Yeah, and you could... [1:33:00] Like literally get a year's supply of your meat in like a few days if you wanted to do that and just eat venison for the rest of the year. Yeah. [1:33:09] It's pretty cool. Yeah. We usually try to get a deer. [1:33:12] Every year. [1:33:13] Up in Napa, too. Mm-hmm. Do you guys go deer hunting? Well, I don't. [1:33:19] Elliot does? Elliot does. I help him clean it, though. I've been doing that since I was a little girl. Oh, really? My dad taught me when I was a kid. [1:33:29] He hunted a lot, and he would send me on these... [1:33:33] routes to kick the deer out to him, you know? Oh, okay. So I would like do the hiking and kick him out and then we would, uh, [1:33:40] We would all gather. It was usually around Thanksgiving. We'd all gather in the basement and cut the meat up. [1:33:48] Scan it and all that. Wow. So I like doing that part. Well, that's cool. [1:33:53] It's a great way to be connected to what you're eating. [1:33:56] Yeah, exactly. It's a completely different experience. You have a different appreciation for it. Oh, yeah. You know, than something you just, like, buy at the store or in a restaurant. [1:34:07] It's a totally different appreciation. [1:34:09] Oh, 100 percent. And also it's like you know it's organic. It's an actual wild animal. And it's the best life that this animal is ever going to live, including the best death, because especially if you – [1:34:22] If you're good with a rifle, if you're accurate, you practice, like it's... [1:34:25] It's dead. [1:34:26] Like that. And it's not like getting...

[1:34:29] It's... [1:34:30] Guts eaten out by a mountain lion, you know, or anything else that's going to eat it or old age or winter, all the horrible ways that animals die. Yeah. You know, their teeth grind down to nothing and they essentially starve to death or. Oh. Yeah. [1:34:47] That guy's rough. [1:34:48] It's a hard life. [1:34:50] No. [1:34:51] So how did you wind up leaving Oregon? [1:34:53] Thank you. [1:34:55] So you walk in a quarter mile every day by yourself with a flashlight trying to avoid being eaten. Yep. How did you get out of there? [1:35:03] Well, I figured out that I needed to find a way to make a living in music. And so I reached out to the only person I had left in my life. [1:35:14] corner musically because like at that point I had lost my record deal. My lawyer dropped me. My manager dropped me. Um, but I was still technically signed to UMPG publishing and, um, [1:35:29] So I reached out to [1:35:31] my like point person there who I hadn't spoken to in years. And I said, help me figure out how to make a living in music. I got to figure this out. [1:35:39] Cause that's the only thing I really know how to do. And I'm a dropout, so I can't really get a good job and editing porn. Yeah. And I don't want to do that. And so, um, [1:35:51] I... [1:35:52] Met with her in New York. I flew to New York and we just sat down and had like this... [1:35:56] long conversation. [1:35:59] And...

[1:36:00] I had, like, ever since I was... [1:36:02] like 13 when I first heard Stan by Eminem. [1:36:07] I'd always been like... [1:36:09] I love... [1:36:10] that combination of like a [1:36:13] pretty, you know, female vocal with hip hop. And [1:36:17] So I'd always wanted to do something like that. [1:36:22] And so I said, I think I could write. [1:36:24] hooks for hip hop songs. [1:36:26] Like, that was kind of like my... [1:36:28] what I told her I wanted to do. And, um, she was like, well, we just signed this producer named Alex kid. And, uh, [1:36:37] That's kind of like his wheelhouse, so you guys should meet. [1:36:41] And, um... [1:36:42] So I flew back to Oregon. [1:36:45] And she connected us on email. [1:36:48] Thank you. [1:36:49] And I would go down to the little cafe to get internet. And so I would just... [1:36:54] I emailed him and he emailed me back some beats that he had just made. And, um, [1:37:02] I would just sit there with my headphones in the... [1:37:04] and like hum little melodies into my computer and send them back. But the first one I did was called Love the Way You Lie. [1:37:14] and [1:37:16] a month after I sent Alex that. [1:37:18] Hook [1:37:19] It was the number one song. Wow. [1:37:24] What was that like? It was crazy. Going from, like... [1:37:28] broke and living in the woods in this cabin and then writing a song that

[1:37:32] literally took over the world. [1:37:35] Yeah, so that's kind of what took me out of Oregon, because after that, I started getting phone calls, you know, from everybody wanting songs from me. [1:37:46] um, [1:37:47] Em had me and Alex come out to work on detox for Dr. Dre. [1:37:54] Um... [1:37:55] And Puff Daddy... [1:37:57] wanted a song, that's where Coming Home came in to play. [1:38:00] Um... [1:38:02] Yeah, it was just... [1:38:03] Crazy. [1:38:04] Suddenly I went from nobody caring to everybody trying to get a song. That's got to be such an insane experience. [1:38:14] To be like, what am I doing? I'm out in a cabin. I got to go outside to pee. [1:38:19] I got to walk a quarter mile to the house. [1:38:22] You're like completely isolated. Do you have any friends out there at all? [1:38:25] Yeah, I had a couple friends. [1:38:27] I made a couple friends when I was out there. [1:38:31] And then... [1:38:32] All of a sudden, yeah. Off to the races. It was crazy. [1:38:38] How did you adjust to that? That had to be very strange. It was, and I also felt so much pressure. [1:38:46] Because, like... [1:38:47] Thank you. [1:38:48] I definitely had a little imposter syndrome when I wrote that song because I was just like... [1:38:52] That was too easy. Like, it took me 15 minutes to write that hook. And I sent it off, and suddenly everybody wanted to get a song from me. And I was like, that must have been a fluke. Like, this is never going to happen again. I'm never going to write another one like this or whatever. And so many people were just...

[1:39:10] wanting songs and I felt so much pressure to deliver a hit song every time. [1:39:15] you know, [1:39:16] And I was always so hard on myself that that... [1:39:20] became even worse. [1:39:22] Um... [1:39:23] I would just put way too much pressure on myself. I got invited to do so many songwriting sessions, but at that point, I had pretty much only ever written... [1:39:31] by myself. And so being like thrown in rooms with songwriters and producers and stuff, I was so shy. I just felt [1:39:39] It was always so hard for me to open up creatively in front of strangers. [1:39:44] So I would just like walk out of sessions crying and just be like, I suck. I can't do this. You know, it was hard. That was the hardest part for me. [1:39:56] Just performing in front of a bunch of people in the studio? Yeah, just trying to create hit songs every time I go into a writing session. I just felt like there were such high expectations on what I would deliver. And I can't force creativity. [1:40:14] It happens or it doesn't, you know, but I felt like I had to deliver a hit song every time. And because I... [1:40:22] put that pressure on myself, it kind of shut down my creativity. And it made it really hard for me to do that. So then I ended up like, just leaving a lot of sessions and... [1:40:33] feeling like a [1:40:35] Like, I didn't deserve to be where I was. [1:40:39] Not good enough.

[1:40:41] How'd you get over that? [1:40:43] Um... [1:40:45] I didn't really. [1:40:54] Yeah. I don't think I ever got over that. I did a lot of these sessions for a while because I felt like I had to, and then I just kind of stopped taking them. [1:41:04] I stopped agreeing to do them because it was just too much. It was too hard on me. [1:41:08] This podcast is brought to you by Carvana. Selling your car should feel like one less thing on your list, not one more. With Carvana, it is. Just go to Carvana.com, enter your license plate or VIN, and get a real offer down to the penny. No back and forth, no surprises, just an experience you can trust. Like your offer? Accept it. Schedule a pickup, and we'll come to you with a check in hand. Your car, your timeline, your terms. Visit Carvana.com to sell your car today. Carvana. Pick up fees may apply. [1:41:38] you [1:41:38] This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. Once you've got a great name for your business, you need a great domain. And Squarespace makes it easy to lock in a domain. You just search the name you want, buy it, and then you're ready to build. No hidden fees, no weird upsells. Go to squarespace.com slash Rogan for a free trial. And when you are ready to launch, use the code Rogan to get 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. [1:42:07] So explain these kind of sessions. So you go to a studio with producers and like and they essentially say, OK, let's try to create something. Ready, go.

[1:42:21] And then you're in there and your creative process is you by yourself, like trying to connect with emotions and thoughts and ideas. And all of a sudden you're around people. And also you're a little weirded out because you've been living in a fucking cabin by yourself. You know, and you're editing porn for two weeks. [1:42:41] That and I just had this like hit song that was huge, was massive. [1:42:46] and [1:42:47] I just felt like there were such high expectations on me. [1:42:51] you know? Right. [1:42:53] So... [1:42:54] It was very hard. [1:42:56] Everybody that I've ever met [1:42:58] Who's really good? [1:43:00] has imposter syndrome. [1:43:01] Yeah. [1:43:02] I think it's a part... [1:43:04] of... [1:43:05] being genuinely creative... [1:43:09] Because... [1:43:10] I think like genuinely creative people don't have that kind of weird ego. We're like, yeah, finally, I'm getting mine. Because some people do have that or they feel like they deserve this. But I feel like. [1:43:24] at least most genuinely creative people that I've talked to, [1:43:27] When something big happens to them, they're like, [1:43:30] This is fucking crazy. [1:43:32] All of my comedian friends, when they start to hit, like when something happens, when they get like a viral clip and then they do a Netflix special or something like that, in the beginning they're like, bro, I'm kind of freaking out. I'm like, we all are. It's okay. Like this is the thing. Yeah. You're going to feel fucking weird. Yeah. That thing, whatever it is, that –

[1:43:53] Imposter syndrome, I think, is a good thing. I think it's a sign that you have a healthy mind or at least maybe not healthy. Maybe that's the right word. You have a creative mind. [1:44:04] And also everything. [1:44:07] Bye. [1:44:08] Completely changes. You have a hit song all of a sudden out of nowhere. Number one, like what the fuck? Like that kind of shift in paradigm, like that is not normal to get adjusted to. You'd have to be a complete psycho to go to be like, all right, this is perfect. This is what I've been waiting for. You know? Yeah. [1:44:25] Because everybody, like, sees people either on television or, you know, in – [1:44:32] You see them in the media and you think, that's a different kind of thing than me. I'm not a famous person. I'm not popular. I'm not successful. I'm just me. [1:44:44] And then... [1:44:45] all of a sudden people know who you are and love you and you're like, oh my God, I'm a fraud. Yeah. Oh my God, they don't know about the shitty songs I've written. Exactly. They don't know that like 99% of the songs that I write suck. Oh, of course. And then the one, you know. I think that's the case with everything though. [1:45:04] You know, I talked to all my friends... [1:45:06] that are comics all say the same thing. Like, out of the jokes that they write, like, ten of them suck, and then one... [1:45:13] one pops through. But the thing is, you just got to keep cranking. Keep [1:45:17] keep trying to find whatever it is. That was the hard part for me was to keep going and keep trying. How would you do it? How did you, like, what is your creative process? My creative process, well, now,

[1:45:32] A big part of it is not living in L.A. I have to be out in the middle of nowhere. [1:45:40] And I like to be alone in the room. [1:45:42] Even if I'm writing to somebody else's beat or something like that, I just like to sit with myself and do it. [1:45:49] Um... [1:45:50] And I just try to focus on how it makes me feel. [1:45:53] you know I [1:45:55] spent some time trying to write what I thought other people wanted to hear. [1:46:00] And I feel like those songs always sucked. [1:46:03] And so just like [1:46:05] letting it flow, almost like [1:46:08] I'm not writing it. [1:46:09] like I'm channeling it or something, that's better. The songs that tick... [1:46:15] Less effort tend to be the better songs and the songs that I slave over to try to get them perfect and overthink they end up doing nothing. John Mellencamp told me he wrote I need a lover that won't drive me crazy in the shower. Yeah. Like that. Done. He was just singing. I need a lover that won't drive me crazy. No, it makes total sense. I write stuff in the shower. I write stuff when I'm cooking dinner. Yeah. [1:46:40] It's not like go into a studio from this hour to this hour and write a song. Like it never works for me to do that. So it'll just be random. [1:46:49] This new album I'm putting out... [1:46:51] There's a song called Motivation, and I remember it came to me when I was standing outside the vet's office when my dog was getting surgery. [1:46:59] on her ACL or whatever they call it in dog world.

[1:47:03] I was just like pacing outside during her surgery and this like song started coming to me. Did she have to do that thing where they cut the bone? Yeah. Yeah. I had a dog. She had to have both her back legs done that way. She blew out both of her. It was brutal. The recovery was brutal. It's horrible. Yeah. She was also a puppy, so she had like puppy energy. [1:47:24] We had to sedate her, and it was awful. [1:47:31] Do you take specific time to just like sit and try to write or do you just like let ideas come to you? [1:47:39] Thank you. [1:47:40] I usually just let ideas come to me. I take a lot of voice notes in my phone, or I'll write down lyric ideas that come to me. [1:47:49] And then... [1:47:51] I need to be better about making time for it because when I do make time to like go in and be creative, it's... [1:47:58] It usually does. There's a balance. It's like I can't force it, but I also can't be lazy and just avoid it completely. So I try to balance that out. Have you ever read The War of Art? [1:48:13] I started it. I started it. I have copies out there. I'll give you a copy if you don't have one. I think I started the book on tape. [1:48:21] I have a copy of the book. It's a very small book. It's very easy, but it's all about that. And Pressfield was – [1:48:30] kind of like an underachiever until he was like 40.

[1:48:33] And then somewhere along the line, he realized that what he really has to do is be a professional. And so he developed this methodology of like channeling the muse. And instead of thinking of the muse as being – instead of thinking of creativity as being this sort of abstract thing – [1:48:52] He thought of it as a thing that you summon. [1:48:56] like legitimately show up every day at the same time, [1:49:01] in front of your computer or your notebook or whatever, however you do it, [1:49:05] and literally say, I am here. [1:49:08] to summon the muse. Like, I'm here respectfully to call upon you. [1:49:13] for your gifts. [1:49:15] And if you just show up every day and treat it like that. [1:49:19] It will work. [1:49:21] Which is a really crazy thought. It makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Do you do it? I do it. Yeah. I don't do it every day. Does it work? But when I do it, yeah, I... [1:49:30] I just sit there and I don't say I'm summoning the muse. I think he does. Yeah. What I do is I go – [1:49:40] Here we go. [1:49:41] I just say, here we go. [1:49:42] I say, here we go. And then I start typing. And a lot of times... [1:49:47] It's like – [1:49:48] Almost like working out. [1:49:49] Like in the beginning, you're like, you know, you got to warm up. You got to get things going. You know, you get on the bike a little bit, crack a sweat, start stretching, you know, [1:50:00] You know, I'm typing in the beginning. It's just like, whoa, I fucking suck. These thoughts are useless. This is not. Oh. Yeah. And I got something. Yeah. And I figured out a way to do it that is more organic for me because I used to just try to write.

[1:50:15] things that were funny. And now what I do is just write. I write on a subject, like a thing. And then I'll let it, like... [1:50:23] If I'm writing about whatever, fucking global change, global warming, fucking earthquakes, whatever I'm writing about, I'll let it shift to what – I don't try to stay on subject. Yeah, you let it. Yeah, it might completely change to something totally different, a completely different subject, and I just let it. And then I just try to get out of my own way and write as much as possible, and then I go over it and try to extract things from that. [1:50:53] And then I'll expand on that idea. I'll start fresh with this idea. And it's just a numbers game. It's just a numbers and time game. The amount of numbers, the amount of time that you spend. [1:51:05] Thinking about stuff, you get these little gifts. Yeah. And that's where the concept of the muse comes from. It's because it's almost like it's like some sort of a divine entity. Yeah, it feels like that. It does feel like that. Yeah. Everybody says that, whether it's authors or musicians or comedians or anybody creative. They say it feels like it's not even my idea. Like it just came to me out of nowhere. [1:51:27] Which is the weirdest thing about the creative process. It's not like... [1:51:31] like a structure you're putting together like a house you know like i know how to do this i lay down the foundation i put up the girders i do the that uh-uh [1:51:41] It's like this thing, like this spiritual weird entity that you're in contact with.

[1:51:49] Yeah. [1:51:49] For sure. [1:51:50] And it's not you because you're like empty when the ideas come. They're just like – [1:51:55] make their way into your head. You're like, whoa, where the fuck did that come from? But then you're responding to your emotional, like, how it makes you feel. Yeah. Like, reading what you're... [1:52:05] channeling or listening to it. And for me, like I focus mostly on that, like, how is it making me feel? Is it causing some type of like emotional response? [1:52:15] You know? Yeah. And then those are the... [1:52:17] Magic moments. Well, that's why it would have to be so weird to do it in a studio with a bunch of people you don't know with under pressure. [1:52:26] Yeah. [1:52:27] For me, it doesn't work. I don't know how some people are like thrive in that environment. [1:52:32] I don't know how. [1:52:33] Yeah, I get it. A lot of rappers. [1:52:36] I just can't do that. I think they feed off of each other. [1:52:40] You know, and like a lot of rappers, they tell me that like, like they're doing it for their boys. So like as they're like hitting like new lines and coming up with new, new rhymes and new raps, it's like they're they're fucking around with their friends and like having a good time, like impressing them with like. [1:52:58] strong lines and great bars and [1:53:01] I mean, I've definitely had some moments like that. [1:53:04] Especially like you can find people you have really good chemistry with. [1:53:08] then it can work. [1:53:09] Right. But generally speaking... [1:53:12] just going into a room with strangers that doesn't [1:53:15] Doesn't work for me. [1:53:16] Thank you. [1:53:16] But yeah. [1:53:17] There are some people that I feel super connected to creatively, and I can do that with them.

[1:53:23] Well, I'd imagine everybody's got their own different little process, but it's just a matter of like doing something. [1:53:30] making the time for it. And I would imagine also it's like as you get really busy and successful and [1:53:38] there's a lot of obligations. It's harder and harder to find that still time. Well, yeah. And there's like cycles. Like right now I'm not writing at all because I'm just in, [1:53:49] you know album promotion mode and so it's all about like content and all this other stuff so i haven't written a song in a long time [1:53:57] Thank you. [1:53:58] So, and it's also kind of like a muscle, like, [1:54:01] Thank you. [1:54:02] Songwriting for me. [1:54:04] once I get into a songwriting zone, it's like, [1:54:07] coming [1:54:08] like way easier all the time, but I have to like warm up to get into it and get back in that head space and, you know, warm up that muscle again. Yeah. [1:54:17] That makes sense. [1:54:19] marathon running [1:54:20] Yeah. Yeah, something. [1:54:22] Yeah. I think everything's like that. Yeah. [1:54:24] You got into like grooves. [1:54:28] Yeah. [1:54:29] So when you're in the middle of promotion, like what is the difference in – [1:54:35] Like... [1:54:36] Do you have ideas that still come to you and you just sort of jot them down and go one day I'll go back to that? [1:54:42] Yeah. Yeah. [1:54:44] Yeah, I just store them. [1:54:46] Does this feel like when you're in promotion time does it feel like [1:54:51] Weird... [1:54:52] Like... [1:54:53] Like you got to go out and sell it.

[1:54:56] And you got to... [1:54:57] I don't know. Talk about it. I enjoy all the different aspects of it. You know? I love the... It's all creative. It's all creative. [1:55:05] for the most part, like even just like making content and filming stuff. [1:55:09] Um... [1:55:11] It's an art form, too. So I feel like I'm still, like, getting my creativity out. It's just not in the... [1:55:17] Songwriting. Lame. And so is it like one of those things where in the back of your mind, you're like, eventually this will come to an end and I'm going to get back to it. And then it starts to like... [1:55:28] itch at you. Mm-hmm. [1:55:30] Yeah. Yeah, I get the itch. Yeah. Yeah. Time to get back. Yeah, I'm already feeling it. Are you? I'm ready to write again, yeah. Well, I would imagine that being in a place like Napa, where you're like around, like [1:55:43] peaceful... [1:55:45] you know, beautiful background and, you know, nature. And it's probably like, [1:55:53] way easier to get in touch with your mind than... [1:55:57] to be trapped in Manhattan. For sure. Beep, beep, fuck you. You know that? Yeah. Yeah. [1:56:03] That's exactly why I've stayed away from cities. [1:56:06] Thank you. [1:56:07] Yeah. I guess everybody has to find their own thing because I have friends who thrive off that shit. I have friends who live in New York City. They can't live anywhere else. They love it. [1:56:17] Yeah. Maybe it's because I grew up in a rural environment. Maybe it's because you're not broken. I think my friends are all broken. What the fuck is wrong with you? What a living man at? I think it's a comfort thing because I grew up in the woods, so it feels like home to be out in the middle of nowhere. But if I grew up in the city, that might feel more comfortable for me.

[1:56:36] and I might be able to hear myself think better there. [1:56:40] But... [1:56:41] You know, everybody's different. [1:56:43] I think everybody who goes to the woods realizes they need it. [1:56:49] I'm going to go. [1:56:51] I think it's a vitamin. Yeah. [1:56:53] I really do. I think it's just like how sunlight gives you vitamin D. I think there's something about being in wilderness where you're in tune with all those life forms. Because it's not as simple as, oh, there's a bird, there's a squirrel. No, the fucking ground's alive. The trees are alive. There's energy that all these things have that is being distributed somehow or another in this world. [1:57:19] array of [1:57:22] of information and of just life that's all around you that you feel. You actually feel when you're out there. Yeah. Like forest bathing. Yeah. That Japanese practice. Yeah, for sure. And it's also, there's no fucking cell phone service. So I think there's something to that too because the earth feels cleaner, if that makes any sense. Like when I'm in a place that has no cell phone service, I swear there's a subtle difference in the way the world feels. [1:57:52] Yeah, because I think like in this room, we have Wi-Fi with all the phones like I think there's signals that are just out there that we can't you know, you can't tune it in and go, oh, that's a video my friend sending me. You don't do that. But there's something about whatever the fuck that stuff is that I think your body recognizes as a they say it fucks with bees, like cell phone signals in particular really fucks with bees.

[1:58:21] And like, okay, well, fucks with bees. [1:58:23] I bet it fucks with us, too. Oh, I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah. Because if you're in a place with no cell phone service, the world feels different. Yeah. [1:58:31] It's not just because you can't check your phone. It's the world, the actual world. [1:58:37] The actual air around you feels different. Yeah, I definitely feel that too. [1:58:42] Thank you. [1:58:43] Yeah. Yeah, I think that's how people are supposed to live. [1:58:46] I think we're doing some weird shit to ourselves, you know? For sure. But the weird shit is cool in a lot of ways, you know, because it's how we meet each other, how we talk to each other, you know, how we find out about new things. It's all about good balance of it all, you know? Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. [1:59:03] Do you have goals? [1:59:06] Yeah [1:59:07] What are your goals? Because some people don't. Some people just enjoy just doing. [1:59:12] They don't think about, like, goals. [1:59:15] Yeah, I mean, I have, like, things I want to do. [1:59:18] Before I die. [1:59:19] We don't want to do it. [1:59:20] Well, I want to be better about putting out more music, because... [1:59:26] Because I do put so much pressure on myself, it's taken me like five years between each album. [1:59:31] to make one and put it out. Yeah, but they're also good. I second-guess myself all the time. [1:59:37] And I think, like, I put so much pressure on it. Like, this has to be the, you know, the sound that... The mark I leave on the world, and this is what I want to be known for. I'm like... [1:59:47] Fuck all that. Just capture a moment in time. Like, what am I feeling right now? What vibe am I into?

[1:59:53] and capture that zeitgeist musically, and then move on to the next one. Like, it doesn't all have to be cohesive. I used to just be like... [2:00:02] put so much pressure on it being [2:00:04] cohesive and [2:00:06] having like a certain sound or whatever. [2:00:08] But now I'm just like, okay... [2:00:10] Right now, this album... [2:00:13] I'm calling the genre bubble grunge. [2:00:16] because it's like inspired by the 90s. Um... [2:00:19] pop [2:00:20] and grunge kind of like combined together. Um, [2:00:24] But then the next album... [2:00:26] I might totally flip it and do something totally different. [2:00:30] And that's okay. [2:00:32] Like, it doesn't... [2:00:33] all have to be [2:00:35] like it can be different I can I can change it up and so I'm I'm [2:00:41] My goal in regards to that is to put out an album every year instead of every five years. That's a big shift. It's a big shift. But... [2:00:52] I don't want to look back and just wish I would have released more. Because I have so much music sitting on hard drives and on a Dropbox folder that's never come out. Because I would, like, make a bunch of music and then second-guess it and... [2:01:04] Pfff. [2:01:05] start over and start over again. It's not good enough. It's not good enough. I'm like, I should have just put everything out. I should have just... [2:01:14] been okay with like [2:01:15] you know, putting out a bad album or [2:01:18] a bad song [2:01:19] So [2:01:20] It's okay. Just keep making it and putting it out. Perhaps a part of the creative process is boiling it down to something that you really – I think so, but I think I take that way too far. Do you think that that is in part because of the pressure that you experience for your first thing that hits is number one?

[2:01:40] Which is a crazy experience. Yeah. And you were really young. Yeah. You know, all of a sudden, boom. Yeah. [2:01:47] Maybe that was part of it. [2:01:49] just made me like extra hard on myself. Um, [2:01:54] But I want to have more fun. [2:01:57] And not take it so seriously. So how do you plan on doing that? How do you plan on having more fun and not taking it? [2:02:03] so seriously. I'm already doing it. Yeah? [2:02:07] I think I just turned 40 and I think that also has something to do with it because I'm just like... [2:02:13] Seeing the end. [2:02:17] Like, what am I doing here? Just like torturing myself with all this pressure and not just like... [2:02:23] having fun and being creative and throwing it out there, you know? So. [2:02:29] I'm already doing that. [2:02:31] I'm already having more fun. [2:02:33] That's great. But that is one of the beautiful things that comes with age. Yeah. Giving less fucks. Giving less fucks and just accumulating experiences to the point where you recognize, like, the flaws in your past thinking and why I did this and I'm not happy I did that. And you gather enough of those experiences where you get a better map of the territory. Like, oh, I think I get it now. Yeah. Yeah. [2:02:56] And then you're really established now too. So it's like you don't have to – [2:03:00] be as worried about whether or not [2:03:04] You know? [2:03:06] Yeah. [2:03:08] Thank you. [2:03:10] It's a beautiful thing that comes with age.

[2:03:13] The not giving a fuck or not – you know, like one of the funniest things is seeing an old person doesn't give a fuck. [2:03:19] Oh, yeah. Yeah. Old people who don't give a fuck and just say anything that comes to their mind is hilarious. They're fun. [2:03:29] Well, um... [2:03:31] Thank you for being here. It was a lot of fun. Yeah. I really enjoyed it. I enjoyed talking to you, and I really enjoy your music. Oh, thank you. [2:03:37] Can I talk a little bit about the album that I'm putting out? Absolutely. Okay. It's called Wasted Potential. [2:03:43] It's about me wasting my potential. But it's an album where I'm telling the story of my, like... [2:03:52] upbringing in small town Wisconsin. [2:03:57] discovering my sexuality and just like, it's like a coming of age story. And, um, [2:04:03] It's a part of my story I don't think a lot of people know. They mostly know me from working with Eminem and all the things I did after that. But I just felt like it was time. I think because I turned 40 recently, I was thinking about my childhood a lot and realizing I didn't appreciate it enough. I had a great childhood. And so I just wanted to tell that part of my story more. [2:04:26] kind of for the first time ever. [2:04:28] Yeah. [2:04:28] So I'm excited to get that out. And it was important for me to get it off my chest and out so that I could, like, finally... [2:04:38] I was depressed about turning 40. Really? Oh, yeah. [2:04:42] so depressed about it. But, um,

[2:04:45] I think it's because I didn't [2:04:47] I didn't feel like I was present during my childhood. And I mean, I was working a lot. [2:04:52] uh, [2:04:53] And so, um, [2:04:55] It was important for me to get it off my chest and be at a point now where I feel like I can accept that I'm 40 and actually enjoy it. [2:05:03] And so that was the whole gist of the album. [2:05:06] Thank you. [2:05:07] Do you really think that you have wasted potential? Oh, yeah. Really? Mm-hmm. [2:05:13] How so? [2:05:14] Um... [2:05:15] Well... [2:05:16] When I made music for my mom growing up, [2:05:20] It was a completely different... [2:05:22] lifestyle to now making music in LA and the big... [2:05:27] world of music, I didn't realize how much work it would be. [2:05:30] I didn't realize the grind. [2:05:35] I think when I first got into it, I was kind of lazy about it. [2:05:38] Because I was like, honestly, I probably should have been a Gen Z because I was just like, fuck this. I don't want to do this, you know. And so a lot of decisions I made. [2:05:50] in my career, [2:05:53] I feel like [2:05:55] It was all my fault, basically. All the failures that I've had, I realized were my fault for being... [2:06:02] you know, lazy or not... [2:06:06] putting in the effort and [2:06:08] and [2:06:09] the grind and [2:06:12] Yeah, so... [2:06:14] I wasted a lot of potential. I had so many huge opportunities there.

[2:06:18] when I was younger in the music industry and then I kind of just like, I was like, this is too much work. [2:06:26] But is that a part of like a work-life balance? [2:06:30] Yeah. [2:06:32] I mean... [2:06:33] That's what Gen Z would say. [2:06:35] Right? [2:06:36] They're all about the work-life balance. But in, I feel like in my generation, the millennials, it was all about like work, work, work, work, work. [2:06:46] you know? Mm-hmm. [2:06:49] And I wasn't doing that as much. [2:06:52] So. [2:06:53] Yeah, I didn't feel like turning 40, I was like, I'm not in the place where I thought I'd be. [2:06:59] I didn't do all the things I wanted to do by this age. [2:07:03] And it was feeling kind of like a failure. [2:07:07] And so... [2:07:08] Do you think that that self-critical mindset, though, is just one of those things that's just like – [2:07:13] It's. [2:07:15] It's actually... [2:07:16] inherent to anybody that's creative and ambitious like you're always going to be self-critical and that's probably one of the reasons why your music is so good like this idea like it's not good enough it's not good enough like and obsessing over things we only release something every five years but then look at the quality of the songs that you do release that you do love. [2:07:37] It's like, [2:07:37] There's a balance in there, like a little bit of self-critical, a little bit of like I'm not doing enough. [2:07:46] Let it in there, but don't believe it.

[2:07:48] You know? Yeah. Life is life. It's not all, you know, it's not all like leave a legacy. Because in the end, really, it doesn't matter. I know. You know? It's true. That's why I'm just trying to have more fun. That's great. [2:08:04] Yeah. [2:08:04] both things [2:08:06] Well thanks. [2:08:08] Listen, your music's awesome. Thank you. And it was awesome seeing you with Eminem. It was great. Oh, yeah. You came to the show. Yeah. And also, that's how Marshall was named. He was named after him. Yeah, that's awesome. I told you that, right? Yeah. [2:08:21] So cute. Thank you. [2:08:23] and best of luck with your album with everything else in the future this is really cool, I enjoyed it me too bye everybody [2:08:46] This episode is brought to you by the Farmer's Dog. Here's a fun fact. Research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer on average than dogs who are overweight. [2:08:58] Isn't that wild and also kind of obvious at the same time? So why is feeding vague scoops of ultra-processed kibble still the status quo for most dog owners? Healthy alternatives exist, and trust me, I know. [2:09:12] I buy one, the Farmer's Dog. I use it for both my dogs. They love it. They eat it up quick. It smells good to them. It smells good to me. It's human-grade food. The Farmer's Dog makes fresh food for dogs, and my dogs love it. Their recipes are made with real meat and fresh vegetables that are gently cooked to retain vital nutrients. They also portion out the meals to your dog's nutritional needs, which helps avoid overfeeding and makes weight management easier.

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